Ryan Hillegas Has Solid Alibi On 11/3/05

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth—Sherlock Holmes

Now that Kathleen Zellner has filed her long awaited motion on June 7th, 2017, and in it declared Ryan Hillegas to be Teresa Halbach’s killer, going forward, we can all expect that the scenario she described detailing how Ryan Hillegas planted Steven Avery’s blood in Teresa Halbach’s RAV4 to come under intense scrutiny.  Briefly, this scenario describes that on November 3rd, 2005, Hillegas entered Steven Avery’s trailer, finds Avery’s blood in his bathroom sink, and then plants it in Teresa Halbach’s 1999 Toyota RAV4.  

Zellner has clearly put everything on the line here by asking the public and the court to believe an impossibly outlandish scenario.  Given the massive publicity that this case has already generated, much of it by Zellner herself, if she is proven to be incorrect, she stands to be humiliated before the world.  Therefore, the question of the hour must be, “Is she right?”

Producing an alibi for Ryan Hillegas on November 3rd, 2005 around the time that Zellner indicates he would have been in Steven Avery’s trailer would be one way to prove Zellner wrong.  This might seem like an impossible task given the amount of time that has elapsed since 2005, but Ryan actually does have a solid, ironclad alibi leading almost right up to the time he’s supposed to in Avery’s trailer.  I know this because his alibi can be inferred from a report written by Officer Leslie Lemieux of Calumet County Sheriff’s Department.

Teresa Halbach was murdered on October 31, 2005, and when her mother Karen called to report her missing on November 3rd, 2005 at around 5:00pm, it was Leslie Lemieux who took the report (pp 1-4 of CASO) by telephone.  After taking Karen Halbach’s report, Lemieux reports phoning Mark Wiegert who then asks LeMieux to meet him at his office.  Weigert’s report (pp 5-8 of CASO) indicates that he then began looking into matters himself by first making a phone call at 5:55pm to Craig Sippel, and then another one at 6:00pm to Steven Schmitz.  It is presumed that Mark Wiegert’s office is located in the Calumet County Sheriff’s department.

After Wiegert phones Schmitz, he reports that he leaves with Lemieux to meet Karen and Tom Halbach at Teresa’s apartment in New Holstein.  Neither Lemieux or Wiegert report when they left Calumet or when the arrived in Hilbert, WI, but the trip must have been initiated sometime after 6:00pm.  According to Google maps, the driving time between Calumet County and Hilbert is about 10 minutes which would put them at Teresa’s apartment at about 6:10pm.

Google Map showing distance between HIlbert and Calumet County, WI

When they arrive, Scott Bloedorn is there along with Tom and Karen Halbach.  Though neither Lemieux or Wiegert mention Ryan Hillegas by name, it can be deduced that he is there too because of the following entry in Weigert’s report:

SCOTT allowed us to enter the residence and showed us TERESA’s room. SCOTT and several of their mutual friends had located TERESA’s most recent cell phone activity report on her computer. They printed a copy for us, which showed the last cell phone activity at 2:27 p.m. on Monday, 10/31105.

It was Ryan who testified in court that he printed off the copy of Teresa’s cell phone activity after guessing Teresa’s username and password so this gives Ryan a solid alibi for November 3rd, 2005 at least until 6:10pm, the time when it can be estimated that Lemieux and Wiegert arrived at Teresa’s apartment.

But it hardly seems likely that Ryan would suddenly get up and leave as soon as the cops arrived.  How suspicious would that look?  How long does it take to take a report on a missing person?  I’m guessing that Wiegert and Lemieux were there for at least thirty minutes, and if Ryan was there the entire time, which would now be  6:40pm, he has precious little time to fit into Zellner’s timeline for when the planting of the blood evidence in Teresa Halbach’s RAV4 occurred.

It is Kathleen Zellner’s contention that Ryan Hillegas entered Steven Avery’s trailer after Steven left to go to Menards home supply store with his brother Chuck at around 7:30 pm. Before Avery left for Menards, according to the motion, he had bled into his bathroom sink. Because blood coagulates within fifteen to twenty-eight minutes, Ryan would only have had only a very narrow window of opportunity to obtain the blood while it still in a liquid state and thus still plantable.  By the way, Zellner has proof, apparently, that Steven Avery checked out of Menards at 8:04pm on November 3rd, 2005.  She also estimates the time he left his trailer to go there:

He did not clean the blood out of his sink prior to leaving the trailer at approximately 7:30 p.m. to go to Menards with his brother Chuck. (Affidavit of Steven Avery, P-C Exhibit 4). Menards in Manitowoc was an approximately 23 minute drive from the Avery property. (Affidavit of Steven Avery, P-C Exhibit 4). Mr. Avery and Chuck checked out at Menards at 8:06 p.m. (Menards Surveillance Video, attached and incorporated herein as P-C Exhibit 5).

This timeline might still work for Zellner’s case, but just by a razor thin margin. If Wiegert and Lemieux only stayed at Teresa’s apartment in Hilbert for the relatively short period of thirty minutes and then left around 6:40pm, and if Ryan departed only after they left, he had, according to Google maps, about a forty-five minute drive to Two Rivers, where the Avery Salvage property is located.

Map showing distance between Hilbert and Two Rivers

This could put Ryan as Avery Salvage, but all of the generous assumptions I’ve made (in favor of Zellner’s motion would have to dead on because the window of opportunity for Ryan or anyone else to plant blood closes between 7:30 pm and the half hour or so it takes blood to coagulate.  If the blood wasn’t planted by 8:00 pm, in other words at the very latest, it couldn’t have been planted the way Zellner describes in her motion.  

But this isn’t necessarily the only time constraint one can infer from reading the motion. Zellner’s motion indicates that Ryan appeared on the Avery property at around 7:30 pm:

At approximately 7:30 p.m., Mr. Avery was exiting the Avery property onto Highway 14 7 when he observed taillights of a vehicle close to the front of his trailer. (Affidavit of Steven Avery, P-C Exhibit 4; Menards Surveillance Video, P-C Exhibit 5).

If the lights that Avery saw were indeed those of a vehicle drive by Ryan Hillegas, Ryan had about fifty minutes to get to the Avery Salvage Property in Two Rivers from Hilbert.  The drive, according to google maps, takes about forty-five minutes, so this gives Ryan only five minutes of leeway.

 Ryan most probably does have an irrefutable alibi up to at least a half hour of when Zellner puts him on Avery’s property.  For the half hour or so in question, that between 6:40 pm and 7:30 pm, A lot of seemingly possible thing would have to go right including:

  • All of Ryan’s friends, or, at least those people in attendance at Teresa and Scott’s apartment would remember the sequence of events that took place between approximately 6:30 pm and 7:30 pm on November 3rd, 2005 with great precision, being particularly mindful of when Ryan Hillegas left to go somewhere.
  • If Ryan did leave sometime after 6:40 pm, these people, who have heretofore remained silent, would have to be willing to offer testimony despite knowing that they would be helping to incriminate a man who they do not believe killed Teresa Halbach.

We also have to consider that things didn’t go exactly as outlined here.  What if there was proof that Mark Wiegert and Leslie Lemieux stayed at the residence for more than hour, and that Ryan was there the whole time?  What if Karen Halbach, Tom Halbach, and all of the friends of either Ryan, Teresa or Scott report that Ryan never left the house until the next morning, or that some or all of them went out for drinks somewhere?  What do Ryan’s cell phone records reveal?

My prediction is that Ryan is going to have an alibi for the time that Zellner says that he was at Avery Salvage Yard planting evidence, and that this could mean big problems for efforts to free Steven Avery.

On a personal note, to my loyal readers, particularly, I do realize that this post might make it seem like I’m disloyal to the cause of Steven Avery.  But the truth is that sooner or later someone is going to connect all of these dots anyway.  Also, I promised Ryan Hillegas that if I ever found any evidence whatsoever that he had an alibi, I would be happy to publish it.  So, I have to honor that.

Additionally, at some point we also need to acknowledge that everyone is fallible, including Kathleen Zellner.  She mentions somewhere in her motion that Ryan had worked with an accomplice at some point.  How do we know, then, that it wasn’t this accomplice who planted the blood?  Where was Mike Halbach when Ryan and Scott were talking with police at Teresa’s residence on the 3rd of November?  

Might it have been Mike who did this little favor for Ryan?  If Mike had helped Ryan in any way with the murder of Teresa, or even in covering up the murder, their fates would have been intertwined, and Ryan would have had leverage.  In fact, why wouldn’t Ryan send Mike on this errand?  If we are to suppose that Ryan killed Teresa and then initiated the frame of Steven AVery, and then led the search for the person he murdered, we have no other conclusion to reach but that Ryan Hillegas is a supremely diabolical individual interested in preserving his own fate at the expense of whoever might get in the way.  If Mike had been spotted driving the RAV4, or had been stopped by law enforcement, Ryan, at least in his own mind, would be off the hook.  At the very least it would have been one accusing the other, with the possible advantage going to Ryan since he wasn’t the one driving the vehicle.  If Ryan was a manipulative Svengali, who’s to say what he might have been able to get Mike to do.

Another question is where was Teresa’s car when Wiegert and Lemieux were meeting with Teresa’s parents?  If the tail lights that Steven and Chuck Avery saw on their property were those of 1999 Toyota RAV4, and if Kathleen Zellner’s theory about Ryan planting evidence is correct, that would mean that Ryan would have driven straight from Teresa’s apartment in Hilbert in said RAV4.  This seems wildly implausible.

Correction: In an earlier posting of this article, I mistakenly cited New Holstein as the location where Scott Bloedorn and Teresa Halbach lived.  Because New Holstein is about twenty minutes further away from Calumet county than Hilbert, I had to make adjustments in the timeline.  For example, Wiegert and Lemieux, in the original scenario (New Holstein being their destination) arrived at Scott and Teresa’s apartment at 6:30 pm instead of 6:10. In the revised scenario, Ryan Hillegas has about twenty more minutes of leeway to get to Avery Salvage Yard.  I regret the error.

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69 comments

  • Daniel when you called Hillegas after the brief, did he answer?
    If so, what did he say?

  • Hi all new here but been interested in the case even before MaM
    The big hole is, where was the car between the 31st and being found, I thought there was a fly over that did not see the car before 5th ? If it was not on the yard (or even if it was) the killer had lots of time to do stuff, if SA had the car for all that time it would seen strange that he would not clean the car completely of evidence, the blood stain near the diving wheel (as others have said) is strange if as he knew he had a cut that was still bleeding he would want top clean that up

    I guess I’m saying an alibi for the one day does not mean a lot , where was he and the car on the other days… sorry it I’m stating things covered or the obvious.

  • You can’t assume that Ryan may have been at Teresa’s apartment at least up until a specific time based on when law enforcement received the print out of Teresa’s phone records because you’d have to know when the phone records were printed out. As an example, say Ryan printed out the phone records at Noon of the 3rd, Ryan could have given the records to Scott and left the apartment, lets say at 1:00pm and never returned. Just because the phone records were at the apartment does not mean Ryan was. Also you’d think that Zellner had already confirmed the time Ryan was or wasn’t at the apartment, but just because Ryan may not have been at the apartment does not mean that he was doing what Zellner says he was, the possibility exists that Zellner took all events of where people were and put them together to fit the timeline of her theory. Remember Zellners account of what happened may be theory or fact based on what she can prove.

  • Can anyone date the picture seen at the top of this page?? I’m curious as to the actual date it was taken.

    • This still image taken from news footage IIRC could have only been taken on Nov. 5th as Ryan was “handing out assignments” for the volunteer searchers. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. But I don’t believe there were searches on Nov. 4th, as Ryan said he was mapping out areas for searches that day while others were just putting up the fliers he picked up on his way back to Teresa’s house for her mom. So fliers on Nov. 4th, searches on Nov. 5th.

      • I believe you are correct.

      • I would like to point out the Avery property is not in Two Rivers it is located in Mishicot, in which one can take hwy 310 to county B and follow it through shoto which takes you to mishicot thus shown on the map. Or one could take a shorter route hwy 310 to county road R this takes you about 5 miles from the avery property and shaves off 15 minutes from the driving to Two Rivers theory……

        • It’s not just a simple of matter of whether he had enough time to get from Hilbert to Michicot, it’s whether he ever actually left Hilbert in the first place. Are the people who he was with going to say that he remained at the house? I highly doubt it, or someone would have spoken up by now, and no one has.

  • “It was Ryan who testified in court that he printed off the copy of Teresa’s cell phone activity after guessing Teresa’s username and password so this gives Ryan a solid alibi for November 3rd, 2005 at least until 6:10pm, the time when it can be estimated that Lemieux and Wiegert arrived at Teresa’s apartment.”

    The report says that friends “had located” the records and “they printed a copy for us,” but it doesn’t say when the records were located and/or printed. Hillegas testified that, after arriving at Scott’s house in the afternoon:

    We found a list of her friends on her computer with all their numbers. So we started calling all them to see if anybody had whereabouts. And then after that we printed off her cell phone records off the internet, just to see what calls she had made, or other numbers of friends we could find on there.

    Unless I’m missing something, there’s no mention of him personally provided the information to the police, and I seem to recall that Weigert actually interviewed him the next day.

    “But it hardly seems likely that Ryan would suddenly get up and leave as soon as the cops arrived. How suspicious would that look?”

    Can we really take this for granted? It should be clear by now that the investigators weren’t the best and brightest.

    • I think it is clear by inference that Ryan was present when Wiegert and Lemieux were at Scott and Teresa’s apartment. In any case, there are at least five people there who could say one way or another. Then you also have his cell phone records which, depending on how reliable they are (something which is still not clear to me, at least) which might put the matter to bed.

      I should also mention that neither Wiegert nor Lemieux had any clue who Ryan was other than perhaps one of Teresa’s friends, or even a friend of a friend. One of the first questions Lemieux asked Scott Bloedorn and Karen Halbach was whether Teresa had a boyfriend or recent ex boyfriend. Even though Ryan was sitting in the room, or, maybe because he was sitting in the room (within hearing range), they both told Lemieux that Teresa didn’t have a boyfriend or recent ex boyfriend. Their answers were technically correct, by the way.

      • Thank you for clarifying. And thank you for your time and effort putting this together. I know others redicule and try to negate efforts I appreciate others opinions as everyone analyzes and processes differently.

        Thank you I look forward to future posts

  • Would like to ask why Ryan H is asking you to come up with his alibi if you find a plausible one? Maybe I did not read correctly?? If he has one why does he not provide it or make a statement through a lawyer. I understand he probably does not want to feed anything to the press but him asking you to search for one does not sit well with me… Truth will come out eventually.

    “promised Ryan Hillegas that if I ever found any evidence whatsoever that he had an alibi, I would be happy to publish it. So, I have to honor that.

    • Ryan Hillegas has never asked me anything. We’ve never spoken, and I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. Before Zellner came to this case, or anyone else for that matter, I have been the leading voice throwing suspicion on Ryan. I have publicly asked him to confess if he killed Teresa Halbach, and I’ve written numerous articles about why I suspect him of being the killer. That said, I do have an obligation to publish all information about Ryan’s whereabouts or probable whereabouts even if that information is incompatible with my suspicions. I’ve told Ryan that if he has an alibi, or he can provide a good reason to remove himself under the cloud of suspicion that he is now under, I would not hesitate to publish it.

  • u should fly back to Wisconsin and get some of RH DNA like u did on Kratz

  • Your efforts and time you put into the Avery Dassey case is always interesting, We all agree it is a twisted mess. Trying to connect the dots are so complicated..anyway your new timeline brings up some questions for me. At what time did Colburn stop by Stevens? He volunteered to stops by Stevens instead of Zipperers. Colburn may have noticed the cut on Stevens finger at that time. Steven even allowed Colburn to do a walk through the trailer at that time. Did he notice blood in the sink? If so, I’m sure that would have raised some concern? You would think if RH is getting blamed for this horrific murder and he didn’t do but knows the truth of who was involved in any of the planting of anything, he would start talking very soon..he isn’t going to go down alone..

  • I’m not convinced RH did it and I’m definitely not do convinced SA did. I’m more convinced that MC cops killed TH and set SA up. It sounds a little far fetched but they had the most convincing motive to do it. And if they didn’t do it themselves, they hired a professional to do the job. That’s why they’ll never find where TH was killed, how she was killed, and who actually killed her. SA is doomed unless someone in MC that knows something comes forward.

  • Roland Johnson says Steven had a nasty cut the week or so before before October 31st (this could have been the original cut, when he was loading tin onto a flatbed). This would be the cut he reopened on November 3rd when unhitching the trailer and again on November 5th when installing the tin. I think Zellner is presenting her theory about Ryan because pointing the finger at Kratz or the cops is trickier and may not result in Steven getting a new trial.

  • Everyone is missing the point. KZ is not accusing RH of murder. She’s simply illustrating the fact that there WAS someone who fit all the criteria of the Denny ruling, and that SAs council neglected to use it to his benefit, thereby proving ineffective council. Which is an automatic retrial.

  • TH isn’t dead. Mantiowoc County conspired with TH and her family to make this all a setup in a desperate attempt to frame SA and avoid paying a ridiculous amount of money that would break the County, lose their jobs and pensions, and potentially face prison time. They paid her and her family a lump sum of change, changed her look, sent her to Canada, and changed her name. Why would she do this? 1.) It was a lot of money. Upwards of 10 million, which was still a lot less than what SA was going to get from them. 2.) She was getting depressed and wanted a fresh start. She had dabbled in a few risky relationships and it really ate her up. Also, she wanted to get away from her stalker ex RH. 3.) She was a free spirit and needed some adventure in her life. It’s not hard to convince a free spirit to go do they what please with a chunk of cash in their hands. 4.) Mantiowoc County convinced TH and her family that SA was actually guilty of the rape he was in prison for and that he should be behind bars for life anyways. 5.) The wife of the married man she was messing around with started stalking her and leaving her nasty threats. Another reason to be scared and want to get away.

    How did they do this? Simple… they took some blood from Teresa for DNA. They knew all they needed was a few pieces of evidence because too much would lead to investigators finding out it was a hoax. They will never find a murder location because there wasn’t one. The planted bones aren’t TH’s and while all of this went down she was busy getting plastic surgery to change her face and then on to Canada.

    You may ask, with all the people involved wouldn’t this cost Mantiowoc County a lot of money, way above the 10 million paid to TH and her family, and be way too risky? Yes, but they’d rather give this money to someone else rather than any Avery and didn’t want the reputation of losing a court battle against SA for 36 million for a crime they worked hard to set him up on.

    • Hey listen, I’m 100% a supporter of Brendan & Steven & their innocence. I’d love nothing more for every word you just said to be true & that Teresa was never actually murdered, not just for their sake, but for hers as well.

      Anyone can go around & make up stories & what-if scenarios. Some even sound detailed, well thought out, and plausible. The problem is, that unless you have actual evidence to back it up, it’s no better than Kratz’s made up press conference.

      So tell us. Do you actually have any evidence to back this up? Follow the money transactions? Statement or records from the plastic surgeon? Anything at all?

      • My point is my speculation is just as plausible as anyone’s. There’s some evidence yes. But to be honest there’s not enough evidence to say TH was murdered or is even dead. And definitely not enough evidence to convict someone of murder. So to answer your question, no I haven’t done any research. I’m just stating what I think could be a possibility based on what I’ve seen.

        • Thank you for your honesty. I do still hope she’s not actually dead. But I have not seen anything to suggest she is alive either. And I’m afraid the lack of being able to conclusively say she’s dead, is due to the fact that someone went out of their way to cover themselves so well that they left too little behind to test for any expert to be able to say 100% that she is dead, how she died, or who killed her. Just being honest myself, I don’t believe she is alive, sadly. There is too much to suggest that she is not.

          I do believe that Zellner has had someone look into this photographer named Teresa in Canada & ruled her out. That was too easy. But you’re suggesting that Teresa has willingly cut off contact with her family & friends, and allowed them to believe she was brutally murdered to help cops frame an innocent man. Why would she agree to this? Sure, maybe her family knows, but I don’t believe for a second that her friends are also in on this. And they’ve suffered so much because of thier loss. I just can’t make it work in my mind that she would put anyone through that pain not only once but countless times over the years through trials & appeals & MaM, without saying a word.

          I do believe Teresa was a good person, with an enormous heart, and so much love for her family & friends, that I just can’t make this scenario work. I’d love to be proven wrong.

  • After reading Zellners motion my conviction is much stronger that alot of things were planted. The car-key planted by the police and the lucky finding of the RAV4 screems foul play. But I think Zellner maybe went a little to far by pointing out that Hillegas planted the blood. Why gamble on that. Its obvious the police only looked at Steven thou many others where more probable suspects.
    Kratz gets a big red card for his work. The jurysystem in US gets a yellow card. I can not understand how americans rely on it.
    I also wish Wisconsin Department of Justice good luck burying thier head in the sand.

    • The “lucky find” wasn’t lucky at all, nor was it God’s intervention. Strum and her daughter pulled into the Avery salvage yard in the exact same area anyone going into the salvage would (called the entrance). The same path Norb’s takes to drop-off/pick-up the mobile car crusher. Same path I would take. They started searching the most logical area, near their vehicle, radiating outward from that corner of the yard. They were not searching each car, they were simply looking for a dark green Rav4. It doesn’t take much time to identify a car as not being the dark green Rav4. Investigators didn’t search individual cars until after Halbach’s car was found. Strum was not told or directed by anyone to go there. Despite what Zellner has in her new brief, Hillegas was NOT on-site for this search. Strum asked Ryan if anyone had searched the salvage yard, then she volunteered.

      You don’t have to be a genius to see the logic in their 30-35 minute search before discovering the Rav4, but you will need to remove the “conspiracy-collored” glasses to see it.

      No, “many others” were not “more probable suspects” and the investigators did not focus solely on Steven, they interviewed nearly three dozen potential suspects and witnesses during the investigation. They also took DNA samples from all the Avery’s. They questioned one of Halbach’s most recent boyfriend (man named Bradley) asking him for an alibi and checking his recent phone records. Ryan was not her “ex-boyfriend” as the series implied, he was about the third or forth one down the line at that point. They stopped dating during the first or second year of college, but have still remained friends.

      No one else had Steven’s extensive history of violence towards women, and he was in prison for 18 years while all the others were not. He was convicted of holding his cousin at gun point after running her off the road. Death threats to his ex-wife, statutory rape of a cousin. He was one of the last people to confirm seeing Halbach alive that day, he was her last Auto Trader appointment before she disappeared. His story varied on whether or not he saw her. The *67 phone calls didn’t help either. When evidence started coming in, it pointed to Avery. Even if you believe the idiot’s-tail of all the evidence being planted, investigators still had no choice but to zero-in on Avery.

      No one in their right mind would consider any suspect “more probable” than Avery, but investigators did interview other possible suspects, Bradley was questioned a little more than the others. Unlike most, he was asked for an alibi, recent phone calls and told up front he was not obligated to answer any questions (like they did with Brendan and Steven).

      While these interviews were being conducted other investigators were searching for evidence, they started narrowing their suspects as the evidence rolled in. You have to stop looking at every aspect of this case with your conviction that all the investigators were corrupt, try reading some of the case files with an open mind.

      • I don’t fault people for thinking it was Avery, but it’s also uncalled for to say that those who disagree are stupid. I think that there are sincere and intelligent people on both sides who disagree. Personally, I don’t think the scenario described by the prosecution makes any sense, and even most of the people who ardently believe that Avery is guilty are pretty quiet when it comes to Brendan Dassey. Anyone who believes that boy did what they said he did is either not playing with a full deck, or they’re not being honest.

        The other big sticking point for me is the blood in the RAV4 near the ignition switch. I simply do not believe that a transfer stain would look like that. Rather it clearly looks planted. I’ve also proved that the key on the floor of the trailer was also planted. No one on either side has really addressed why the key on the trailer floor clearly does not match the official evidence key. That’s the point at which I throw my hands up. Zellner could have mentioned it in her motion, but apparently it conflicted with her own pet theory so she just ignored it.

        • Actually I didn’t intend to imply stupid, but it’s certainly what happened. I was suggesting people let go of the conspiracy frame-up and planted evidence theories before looking at the evidence in the case. Same goes for those who assume Avery’s guilty. After watching the series I had plenty of questions, but was not settled on guilt or innocence or corruption at that point.

          The blood on the Rav4 dash appears to have been left by an extended finger while operating the ignition. Most people (me included) who get a cut like Avery had on his middle finger tend to keep it straightened when using that hand. Gripping something with a cut finger isn’t pleasant and can further the injury or reopen the wound if it’s in the process of healing. Keeping is straight while using the hand somewhat keeps it out of harms way. Of course it appears it was already opened up and bleeding anyway.

          According to the Stuart James affidavit, the dash was 2.25 inches from the ignition switch. My middle finger is 3-inches long, it extends about 2.4 inches while gripping my keys with just the thumb and forefinger. Hitting the dash wouldn’t be a problem for me. I have no way of knowing how long Avery’s fingers are, but it’s very likely he touched the dash with that injured finger while wearing cloth gloves.

          Brenda’s case is definitely a mess. The prosecution didn’t exactly say we believe “this”, they said “this” is what Brendan told us and here’s what we can prove. I don’t know how much he actually did, but I’m no longer surprised of what children and young adults 10-20 years old can do these days. Whatever he did, I doubt he was doing it willingly. I’m certain Steven bullied him in to whatever took place that day.

          A few things that stand out with Brendan’s interviews and do not help his case. The fact he mentioned rape and “killed her” before anyone else is significant, but not proof of anything either. Although at the time she was still just a missing person and Brendan was just a witness. He says “Are you sayin’ he did it??”, referring to Steven. Then a few minutes later “That he raped her or whatever.” suggesting Halbach may have been assaulted.

          Cases like James Bulger, Tiffany Eunick and Madelyn Clifton show that even kids can do horrible things. I just don’t see Brendan doing any of it on his own. I believe he needs counseling, not jail. And to stay far away form his uncle Steve.

        • What do you see different about the keys?? Have you considered she looked into it and determined you’re simply mistaken or, if correct, there was nothing to prove (lack of evidence, lack of recourse, etc.). At this point I think Zellner would jump on anything, she did give us “Brain Fingerprinting”. So it’s not as if she’s discerning.

          The key itself looks to be the same shape in the pictures I have, and have seen. Referred to as the sud-key or valet key. It’s not easy to see with the crime scene photo being low quality. But they look like the same key to me. The lanyard appears to be the same, aside from some lighting and camera angle issues altering the color.

          If you have some better pictures that would help. What I have of Avery’s floor is not great, so the pattern on the key is not visible. The evidence keys are clear enough.

      • The only reason you insult people is because your fear of being wrong. But it’s okay to be wrong every once in a while.

      • Eric, have you ever been on the Avery property? I can tell 100% by your assumption on the most logical path for Pam Sturm, that you have not. I have been there. And I can assure you, without any doubt, and not one person can dispute this, that the path she took was the least obvious that she could have possibly taken.

        You are right, there is one main entrance which leads directly to the main office, where she would have had to go to speak to anyone & get permission to search the property. What she did next was SO unreasonable that it can’t be called anything but odd. From the office area, directly in front of it, there is a very clear, obvious path that overlooks the pit area & leads down into it. It’s absolutely impossible to miss. Yet, she chose to go in the opposite direction, behind the main office, down a path that appears to lead into nothing but trees. There is ZERO way she could have possibly known that the path she chose would wrap around & lead into the pit.

        There are videos of this on YouTube, btw. If you don’t believe me, check it out. She was at the very least, pointed in the direction she needed to go in that would take her closer to the car without having to walk through literally thousands of cars before ending up POSSIBLY going in that direction. Why? Because there is no way to ensure that she would ever find Teresa’s car if she had taken the obvious path into the area she intended to search. I don’t know how to be more clear than to say that she had to be directed to go the way she did. And who admitted to giving her a “map”? Ryan did. Have we ever seen this “map”? No. But I can only assume that it was the only way he knew of getting her where she needed to end up because it completely avoids the pit, and the visible areas of the pit from the main office area. And in my opinion, there would be no reason he’d know that unless he’d also taken that path to avoid being seen.

        • “Eric, have you ever been on the Avery property? I can tell 100% by your assumption on the most logical path for Pam Sturm, that you have not. I have been there. And I can assure you, without any doubt, and not one person can dispute this, that the path she took was the least obvious that she could have possibly taken.”

          I’m looking at the property right now, you might consider doing the same. For a customer, there are two logical paths into that yard from Avery Road, straight down the road past the main shop to the location Strum parked, near the south-east corner. Or you can veer right when Avery Road forks and drive past the shop to the northern side of the yard. Norb’s obviously uses the path Strum took and drops off the mobile crusher near where she parked. It’s the straightest path to that location.

          Strum drove straight down Avery Road to the main shop. She stopped at the shop to ask for permission to enter and search for Halbach’s car. Receiving permission, she then continued down the road until she got near the crusher. If that’s not a logical path, nothing is.

          If you believe that’s the “least obvious” path a person can take, you’re not looking at this objectively. The “least obvious” path would be entering the back of the property through the quarry, or some outlandish route that involves driving through Michigan. :)

        • Eric, Pam said she went inside the main office & no one was in there, so she went back outside & spoke to the men standing nearby. One of them was Earl. And he would have been standing near one of the garage buildings next to the office. If she in physically standing in that area, there is exactly ONE path that would be obvious leading down into the pit where she wanted to search.

          But no, she decided to walk all the way around the back of the office & go down a long road that passed Chuck’s house & didn’t appear to lead to the pit until you walk forever, around a curve in the road, and THEN you can see that it leads into the pit. Sure, overhead you can see that. But on the ground, you cannot.

          And before I had physically been standing in the exact location of the office & garage area & walked that same path all the way to the pond, I didn’t think it was that big of a stretch to walk around the back of the building either. But when you’re there, it’s 100% clear that she went in a direction that proved she had to have been lead by someone, and I don’t think it was God.

  • Here is my thought on Ryan’s alibi. Look carefully at this exerpt from Wiegert’s police report:

    *SCOTT allowed us to enter the residence and showed us TERESA’s room. SCOTT and several of their mutual friends had located TERESA’s most recent cell phone activity report on her computer. They printed a copy for us, which showed the last cell phone activity at 2:27 p.m. on Monday, 10/31105.*

    I don’t see any mention of Ryan physically being at the apartment during that time period. Only that it is later determined that Ryan was the one who printed out the phone records. Right? But we don’t know WHEN he printed those phone records. For all we know, he had already looked them up, printed them off, and left the apartment BEFORE LE got there. Correct?

    I can think of some very valid reasons/excuses for him to leave that apartment, but I will share the best one. He was going to go to the addresses of the last numbers she called/called her, to see if he could find her or her car. One of her last calls made/received was from Avery property. He may or may not have known at the time who lived on that property before he left, but he had to once he drove up to the huge Avery Salvage sign at the entrance to the property. Lightbulbs go off!

    Feel free to contact me on FB. Would love to chat more about this & other areas in question.

    • One more side note. Ryan has said that he was out driving & looking for Teresa, along with several other people doing the same thing. He also said he was driving the roads & making maps for the searchers. For all we know, he was out “driving” with his accomplice/alibi.

    • It says “They did print us a copy of Teresa’s cell phone records from Teresa’s computer.”, not “they gave us a copy”, not “we obtained”, not “they had a stack”. They printed one out, from her computer, and handed it to the investigators. Even with you taking the first half of the sentence out of context it doesn’t look sinister, but “from her computer” is a key phrase and indicates it was physically printed out while they were there. Since Ryan did the printing, it means he was physically there.

      • Ryan admits to being the one who hacked her records & printed out the copy. He also says he did this with “some other people”, suggesting that they were also present when he did this & were aware of how he did it. There is no reason we have to assume that they couldn’t have done the same exact thing for the cops. There is no reason to assume that it was him who did it. I don’t care for assumptions. I care for facts. And since there is no factual record of WHO printed those records for the cops, I will not assume anything is ruled out, and neither should you.

      • This is what Wiegert said in testimony:

        Q.You were able to, I guess not you personally, but you watched others gain access to the Cingular account on the website that we have heard about?

        A. Don’t know that I watched them, I know I was provided with a printout that they had gotten off the computer.

  • It doesnt say when he printed it out. They could have printed it that mornig or the day before. The jus say that they printed it but bot when.

  • At piont 237 it is said “ryan hillegas phone records, attached and incorporated herein as P-C exibit 57

    So she has his records …..she also tells us a lot about those records and that his phone wasnt used many times within the timeline……if he was smart enough to get into her phone then he maybe also was smart enough to leave his own phone at home or anywere else but not taking it with him so he could be traced….it isnt that hard to leave your phone at home and go without it.

  • I have to say you have always thought it could be / was RH from the very beginning. It’s always been very highly suspicious that RH was never ever a suspect or asked for an alibi, and had access to the crime scene, not to mention the voice mails.
    Some things regarding him never added up.
    Fingers crossed KZ is right in what’s she says.
    My thoughts are also with the Halbach family, God only knows what is going through their minds.

  • Day light savings. Times might be wrong?

  • Did my comment post? Ughhh I’ll be so mad of it got lost !!!! Lol it took me 20 minutes to write!!! Lol

    • Aint that the truth. The Disqus boards used on other sites are notorious for losing posts, or flagging one as spam because you use the copy & paste functions.

  • I’m going to start by pointing out I am a steven avery supporter. That said, the ONE thing I cannot seem to wrap my head around is that with Zellners new claims about Ryan Hillegas, that he entered Stevens trailer and took blood from the sink, what seems impossible is tht that Ryan would to have amticipated that there was Stevens blood in the sink….which, I dont know about you, seems highly unlikely unless Ryan is psychic. I think a more plausible theory is that Manitowoc county Sheriff’s department planted the blood. Even if it did not come from the blood vile taken from avery years prior. Heck, even if it didn’t come from steven himself. I’m sure a close relative would be a close enough match to call it “conclusive” in this investigation, given how things have gone thus far. I don’t recall of steven was already in custody when the blood smears were found…..but if he was, don’t all new inmates/people under arrest get blood drawn for identification purposes? I’m just trying to come up with a plausible theory,because Zellners is a stretch. There is something missing here. And my guess, is that when this missing piece is discovered, every thing else will fall into place. I have not read more than maybe 25 pages of Zellners just released motion…..did it mention the rest test results of the dna they sent out to see if the blood in the car came from the blood from the vile? Also, what motive would their be for Ryan’s “accomplice”? I get Ryan’s motive….he was pissed that teresa was newly dating his best friend (Teresa’s roommate). Also, how did Ryan burn her body to such a degree? I’m guessing he didn’t have access to a crematorium? Again, I support avery and zellner, but this new theory seems implausible. I think she missed the bullseye here. I don’t know if I’m convinced Ryan is the killer. It seems more probably than steven, sure….but why would Ryan randomly choose to frame steven avery? Put of everyone …..he chooses a man he’s never met before? And a man that had nothing to do with teresa aside from a business transaction? Just doesn’t add up….unless Ryan is a calculating serial killer and gets off on framing people for his crimes, it doesn’t male sense. I personally believe the police are more involved in this than what everyone thinks. I’ve never seen law enforcement , prosecutors, etc rally so vigilantly for someone’s guilt when said guilt was questioned….and they’ve been rallying hard. One might wonder why? Well, because it’s their asses at stake. In any other case, if the prosecutors and jury got it wrong, you would imagine that prosecutors and law enforcement would not be driven by their egos and actually want the right person behind bars. Not in this case. Everyone who had a hand in locking steven up refuses to give his innocence a second thought. Why is that? I have sooooo many questions, that probably will never be answered but that doesn’t mean we can’t theorize 😉

    • There was paperwork in TH’s vehicle as well as a planner. So if anyone else killed her they could have easily seen her appointments for that day.

      Steven Avery had been in the news a lot. Plus it stands to reason that if Teresa had mentioned Avery (creep, answered door in towel) to someone at Auto Trader, she would have also mentioned it to roommate Scott and possibly even Ryan. Ryan would have known who he was.

      I think it odd that the police report doesn’t mention all the friends that were at Scott’s place. However, the fact that it doesn’t suggests that the police were there to pick up specifics which likely would not have taken that long. Had they stayed and questioned people, the names of those present would have been in the reports. Therefore I think Ryan would have had time to get to Avery’s. He could have even slipped away unnoticed or because he had a LE accomplice to cover up what Ryan had done.

      That all being said, if he had determined to set up Avery, assuming he didn’t actively have help from law enforcement, which I think is the case to some degree, I think it likely that he decided to go to Avery’s trailer because he saw Avery leave. It’s possible Avery even mentioned something to Colbern if he was asked if he’d be around. I think most of us would realize that the most likely place to find DNA would be the bathroom. A toothbrush or hairbrush would be the most logical items containing DNA. Frankly if I was going to plant hair or saliva and I ran across fresh blood instead, I’d go with the blood; doesn’t mean he somehow knew…unless Colbern was the source of information re: a cut and that there was potential blood. Ryan could have already had a pipett just in case and possibly swabs or got a swab at Avery’s. We also need to remember a toothbrush was missing.

      It might seem far-fetched, but not as far-fetched as the gymnastics required for the Avery scenario. Avery was seen frequently during those days…Ryan was currently out of work, had lots of time to plan. It also strikes me that it likely happened on Halloween: a day that someone could dress up or at least wear a mask and no one would notice who was under. Again seems more likely than something happening during business hours, with family members coming and going and documented phone calls.

      Not that it matters, but people have instincts too. When I watched MaM I recall commenting to the room during Ryan’s testimony that if it wasn’t Avery, it was Ryan.

      Also, unlike Avery, I’d bet that Ryan’s IQ was 130 or higher. He’s a much more viable suspect.

  • The CASO report is wrong. Teresa didn’t live in New Holstein. She lived next door to her parents, and thier homes were in St. John, near Hilbert.

    • Thanks for the catch. I made the correction.

      • You’re welcome. The Avery Salvage Yard address is 12930 Avery Road, Two Rivers, but the property is actually between Larrabee and Mishicot along highway 147, and not in Two Rivers.

        There’s a new post on TickTockManitowoc, “RH could have been at ASY at 7:30 on 11/3,” which brings up some solid points. Link below:

        https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/6gwb2j/rh_could_have_been_at_asy_at_730_on_113/

        • He might have had just enough time, but I highly doubt it. I also think that if it ever came down to it, either the Halbachs or some of the other people who were there at Scott and Teresa’s apartment are going to vouch for his alibi.

        • So Wiegert basically states that he doesn’t recall someone printing them out, just being handed the print-out. Sounds like maybe it was a gathering of TH’s family and roommate. So could be that Ryan had plenty of time.

          Maddening that these vagueries were allowed to stand.

  • Teresa didn’t live in New Holstein. She lived next door to her parents, and their homes were in St. John, close to Hilbert.

  • Teresa lived next door to her parents, and their homes were actually in St. John, close to Hilbert.

  • Good post Daniel, MH and RH and SB are accounted for in KZ time line, unless one or all 3 can astral project.

  • You might want to consider Ryan and Scott B are we’re best friends, Don’t you think he would cover for his friend, There was also a neighbor seen a white trailblazer/ Truck leaving, Speeding out back road

    • Yes, I think it’s quite possible that he would. I also think that even if he tried to be truthful, along with the others, he could still be off by 30 minutes, and that amount of time makes all the difference here. I also believe, given the reports (which I believe are reliable) that Ryan really was at Teresa and Scott’s apartment at least until 7:00 pm. THis makes Zellner’s timeline nearly impossible. I have to call it like I see it.

    • If he covert for RH whu did SB said “you mean Ryan Hillegas?”, when told they had a suspect? (Its in the motion)

  • I haven’t read your entire post…..but you have missed some obvious things in the past in your fervor to post. Just saying. …

    • But I also may have got more stuff right than anyone else (without ever being given due credit, I might add) if we are to take Zellner as a reliable source of truth. Please also keep in mind that I didn’t have hundreds of thousands of dollars, a staff of dozens, and the unswerving confidence of millions around the world. Given my resources I think I did rather well. And it’s yet to be determined who is really right. There are still so many questions, and I’m going to be posting them whether they favor my theory or not. What makes me different than most is that I’m not afraid to be wrong. What I’m afraid of is not ever knowing the truth.

      • Daniel you’ve done very well. Are you happy to get a back pat?

        • You were the one to jump on me for what you think I got wrong. At the very least, whatever happened on October 31st, 2005 is complicated, and there is plenty of room for reasonable doubt. People ignore what is inconvenient to their theory. The Guilters ignore the fact that the blood near the RAVs ignition switch is clearly planted. They also ignore the fact the the key found on the floor of Steven Avery’s trailer doesn’t match the official evidence key. But in fairness, so do that Truthers. Why? Because it came from me, and not one of their own. I simply cannot get away from that, and countless other oddities about the so-called evidence against Avery. IF we’re ever going to get to the truth, each side needs to come together to discuss whichever theory the other side has made it inconvenient for them to discuss without childish rancor. At some point it also needs to be recognized that the very fact that there are two sides, now bitterly divided, itself means that there is reasonable doubt. The law does not uphold Truth as the standard because that standard is impossible in many cases (such as this one). The standard is reasonable doubt, and that standard has been met in spades.

      • I gave you a hard time, too, especially for violating people’s privacy. But I admire your nonpartisan spirit, which I share.

    • What is your theory on when blood was planted in Rav4?