The Very Strange Court Testimony of Ryan Hillegas

Below is a transcript, with annotations, of the sworn statements Ryan Hillegas’ made in episode 5 of Making A Murderer .  Click here to view the complete court transcript of his court testimony.
 

Kratz: How did you know Teresa?

Hillegas: I guess she was a long time friend. We had dated for five years or so—end of high school, early part of college

 
In this statement, Hillegas tries to downplay his relationship with Teresa.  The last thing he wants to be known as is the ex boyfriend, so he states that she was a “long time friend”. Instead of more accurately describing her as his form girlfriend, he says they merely “dated” for five years?  He also distorts the time frame by saying “end of high school, early part of college”.  Unless there as a gap of several years between high school and college, this is only three years.

Kratz: Were you are aware of Ms. Halbach’s living arrangements? 
Hillegas: Yes 
Kratz: And what were they as you recall? 
Hillegas: She lived in a house with a friend of ours, Scott Bloedorn 
Funny how little we’ve heard from Scott Bloedorn, a “mutual friend”
Kratz: And was it your understanding that Scott and Teresa had any kind of romantic relationship 
Hillegas: No..no romantic relationship 
So Ryan was close enough to either Scott or Teresa to know about whether they were in a romantic relationship.  From whom does he know this?  Scott or Teresa, or both?  
Kratz: Alright. Just roommates? 
Hillegas: Just roommates 
Kratz: Mr. Hillegas, when was the first time that you heard your friend Teresa had gone missing? 
Hillegas: Uh, Scott had called meand said that Teresa’s dad had went over and asked if he had seen Teresa., and Scott called me and I went over to the house that afternoon. And we printed off her cell phone records off the internet just to see, you know, calls she had made or, you know, if there were other numbers of friends that we could find on there.
First, notice that Ryan actually avoids answering the question which simply asks what time he had heard that Teresa had gone missing.  He gives neither a date or a time to indicate when Scott had called him.  She was reported to law enforcement as missing on the 3rd of November, 2005 at approximately 4:00pm.  So, if he went over to the house in the afternoon, at least his timeline is correct.  One pressing question here is why Ryan Hillegas was one of the first people that Scott Bloedorn had gone to in an attempt to locate Teresa.  You see here that Ryan is nervous because he repeats the same thing, as we can see highlighted in red.  Up to this point, his answers are fluid and come quickly, but the more he is questioned, the more he changes his facial expressions, ability to recall events, and mannerisms.  He makes it seem like printing off her phone records was some kind of group effort, but who was the one who came up with the idea?  Who is the one who thought it would be a worthwhile effort to even make an attempt?  Who was at the computer entering in the guessed passwords?  Notice too, that Ryan immediately offers that he printed off the cell phone records.  It’s as if he hopes that he’ll be able to glide right by this highly suspicious activity by making it seem routine.  Kratz could have tried to get away with not addressing it any further by asking something like, “and what did you find”, something he never bothers to ask, of course, but he knows that he has to give it a little cover, so he throws Ryan a few more softball questions before moving on..

Kratz: Finding her cellphone records, how does something like that occur? 
Hillegas: Um, well, there were a couple of us trying to figure it out, but basically I figured out her password and made up a user name that worked and got in her phone records, and, I mean, they printed right off. 
Ryan says that a couple of them were trying to figure it out.  What he was probably trying to do here, is bring other unwitting parties into the figuring out the password to add a layer of protection.  Now, if someone ever accused him of breaching her account, he can say that he wasn’t the only one who knew the password.  And who is a couple?  This is one of several intentionally vague statements he gives.  Is a couple Ryan, Scott and Tom, or is it just he and Tom, or he and Scott?  This ambiguity only serves to protect Ryan, in my opinion, and it is anything but accidental.  He does at least admit that it is he who figures out the password.  The phraseology he uses implies that while the others tried to help, ultimately they were of no use, and it was he alone who figured out the whole thing.  By his own testimony, it is clear that Ryan wants everyone to also think that he didn’t know the username ahead of time because he had to make one up, as he says.  Well, guessing someone’s username can be as difficult as guessing their password.  The odds of guessing both and getting it right between the when Ryan said he went over in the afternoon, and when Teresa was reported missing at 4:00pm are almost astronomical.  So we have to entertain the possibility that Ryan knew the username and password all along.  And if that seems likely, we have to then wonder whether Ryan ever got into her accounts — let’s assume that like most people her username and password were the same for several if not all of her online accounts — without her permission after they ended their relationship as boyfriend and girlfriend.  Lastly, it’s not even clear that Cingular Wireless was even using usernames at that time.  Here’s a screenshot from the Wayback internet archive that shows the login page for Cingular Wireless:

image of cingular login page from 2005

Image of Cingular login page from 2005 showing that phone number was only thing needed as username

 
Kratz: Alright 
Buting: Now tell me about this online search. She had never shared her password with you? 
Hillegas: No. 
Even if Ryan is telling the truth here, there are plenty of ways to gain access to this information with various software tools.  For a very long time there has been software readily available that can be installed in cloaked directories on someone’s computer that can make a cope of every single keystroke a user types.  But to anyone reading this:  do you, or have you ever know the username and password of your significant other?  Have you ever had an ex who you suspected of getting into your online accounts?  It’s a very common thing.
Buting: So, you just went online to Cingular Wireless, or whatever, dot com, and just guessed her password 
Hillegas: Well, we had kinda just figured that it would be apparently relating to her sisters, and I believe it was their birthdates which got into it for us. I’m not exactly sure about what the password was, but… 
What a lucky guess, Ryan!  Her sister’s birthdays?  Not her birthday, or her mother’s birthday, but her sister’s?  Anyone who knows anything about date formatting for coding in any computer language knows that there are dozens of possible variables for a single date, let alone a co-mingling of more than one which could easily boost that number up into the hundreds or even thousands.  And then there is, let’s not forget, the lucky guess of the username too.  Which pushes the odds even worse.  And once he gets in, he doesn’t bother to write this information down, and no one else bothers to write down this crucial bit of information?  Or, maybe Ryan doesn’t want anyone else to gain access to Teresa’s phone records and email so he pretends that he’s forgotten?  It’s about as implausible that someone would fail to take this simple, obvious step as was for him to guess the username and password in the first place.  And now I wonder how it was that the prosecution obtained this information?  Did Ryan help them figure it out too, or was someone else able to get lucky?  Did the phone company provide it?  And what about her email, and social media (MySpace at the time)?  What happened to those accounts?  Did the prosecution ever both to seek to obtain those records from whoever her email provider was?  Are her online accounts still active?
Buting: Ok…Let me ask you about the weekend of October 29th and 30th, the 29th being a Saturday. Did you see her or talk with her that day? 

Hillegas: I don’t believe I talked with her on Saturday. Yeah, I don’t think so. 
In episode 5 of Making a Murder, you see Ryan pretending to have difficulty remembering this.  It’s not something anyone would forget or have trouble remembering if they were in a relationship with someone for five years.  Once again, Ryan is not going to commit to anything he can at all avoid committing to, so we see qualifiers like, “I don’t believe”, or, “I don’t think so”.  
Buting: OK, did you talk with her or see her on Sunday? 
Hillegas: Yes 
Ah, suddenly his memory is great!  No qualifiers because he knows that Scott Bloedorn, at the very least, probably knew he’d been over.  He can’t back out of this one…
Buting: And where was that 
Hillegas: At her house 
Buting: And how did that come about? 
Hillegas:  I had just stopped briefly…I think I was dropping something off for Scott and she was sitting there at her computer 
“I think”, yet another qualifier.  And more deliberate vagueness.  The last time he says he sees his girlfriend of five years alive, he’s uncertain about why he went over, and doesn’t know what he was dropping off for Scott Bloedorn?  Maybe it was a stack of missing posters?
Buting: So the last time you actually saw Teresa was Sunday? 
Hillegas:   Yes 
Buting: Do you know about what time that was? 
Hillegas: No. I don’t know 
Of course not.  Who would remember a detail as insignificant as the time of day you last saw your girlfriend of five years alive?

Buting: I mean we talking morning afternoon night? 
Hillegas:  I don’t know
This is the same guy who wants us to believe he magically guessed a username and password.
Buting: You don’t remember at all? [pause] Alright, by the time Calumt County investigators arrived, I take it you were pretty concerned about Teresa’s well-being, where she was 
Hillegas: Yes 
Buting: Did the police interview you and Scott together, or did they put you in separate rooms when they talked to you, or how did they do that? 
Hillegas: Um…I believe we were, I believe we were in the same room 
Buting: OK, did the police ever ask you for any kind of alibi for October 31st? 
Hillegas: No 
His memory springs back.  No looking off into space, or pausing to come up with this answer.  But seriously, Ryan, what was your alibi for October 31st, and for the next couple of days as well, so we can lay this to rest?
Buting: They never asked your whereabouts whatsoever? 
Hillegas: I don’t believe so 
Ryan uses another qualifier here, but his answer still comes quickly because he has no reason to lie about this.
Buting: OK, so it would be fair to say that you weren’t treated in any way like a suspect that you could tell? 
Hillegas: That’s correct 
This is easy to answer because Ryan wants everyone to think they way the police apparently did: there was simply no reason to suspect him despite being the boyfriend of five years, and being able to get into her phone records.
Buting: And even on the 5th and thereafter when the search narrowed into the Avery’s, the police actually let you through some checkpoints along with some other searchers, you leading them to come search the area, right? 
With only about eleven minutes left in episode two, what sounds like a reporter asks Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas the same question, and they give totally different answers.  Here are a couple of screen captures for you to see for yourself.  And if you actually watch this scene play out, both Ryan and Mike seem nervous.  There are eye blinks, hard swallowing, stuttering, stammering, Mike looking to Ryan for answers, and an overall defensive tone.

Ryan gives not one stammering, stuttering defensive denial

Ryan Hillegas' first denial of being on the avery property

Ryan denies being on the Avery property

but two firm denials of the very thing that Jerey Buting just got him to admit

Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach deny being on the Avery property when first asked

Both Ryan and Mike Halbach deny being on the Avery property

blink, swallow, denial
Hillegas: Yes 
Buting: The area around the property that they had made off-limits to the general public, right? 
Hillegas: Yes 

No trouble with the memory.  I wish Jerry had asked him if he remembered what time of day it was when the search was conducted.

Kratz: Now with you being the coordinator of this citizen’s search effort on that Friday, that is after Teresa was reported missing, what efforts were being developed to try to find Teresa?

Hillegas: Friday night we had planned a road search, I guess you would call it, where everybody got in their vehicles and drove certain roads and maps that we had plotted out for them just to make sure we’d cover everything, but 

Given how well everything was organized and planned, it’s very hard to believe that all of it took place between Friday night and Saturday morning.
Kratz: Maps of what? 
Hillegas: Maps of county highways, um, out in the Manitowoc area near the Avery’s

Kratz: Let me ask you something Mr. Hillegas, why would you center, or why would you direct some of your search efforts around the Avery property?
Hillegas:  Well, mostly for the fact that, you know, the media had covered so much of it, you know, all you’d heard about, you know, around the Avery property and…I believe by that point, we had known that, you know, her last kind of whereabouts was in that neck of the woods 
Don’t you just love it when a plan comes together?
Kratz: So even as an untrained law enforcement officer, you knew to look for the last place she was seen alive, is that right? 
But he didn’t know that.  It was Pam Sturm’s idea according to what Ryan says as we’ll see, not his, and that’s why it was at the end of the day, almost as an afterthought after almost everyone from the search party had left for the day.
Hillegas: Yeah
Kratz: OK,  Do you know Pam Sturm or her daughter Nikole Sturm? 
Hillegas: I had met them Saturday morning. They showed up after the good majority of everybody else had left. But that was the first time I had met them. 
Kratz: What did you and Pam Sturm discuss? 
HillegasShe just basically came right out and said, “Has anybody went to the car yard yet? You know, the Avery salvage yard.” And we just said no, that we hadn’t been sending anybody in there and she offered to and said she’d be willing to and… 
 
Why wasn’t the last place Teresa was the seen the first place they looked then?

Kratz: Before Pam left then to travel to the Avery salvage yard, was she provided a map or any other information?
Hillegas: Yes. Yes, I gave her a map. 
 
When did you make that map, and where did you find the information?  Did you print it off your computer?  How many copies did you print off (along with the missing posters)?  Did you at any point need to run to an office supply store to get more ink? 
 
Kratz: What other information was she provided, if you know? 
Hillegas: Scott had borrowed her… his camera just in case they were to find something. 
 
I keep wondering of what use a digital camera would have been?
Buting: You said that Scott had “borrowed” Pam Sturm a camera, is that right?
Hillegas: Yes.
Buting: But you mean “lent.” Had lent her, given her a camera? Yes. A digital camera?
Hillegas:Yes.
Buting: He didn’t give every one of those members Saturday morning a camera, did he? 
Hillegas: No. 
Hillegas: He just gave it to Pam Sturm who he knew was gonna go out to the Avery salvage yard.
Hillegas: That’s correct.
Buting: That’s the only person he gave a camera to, right?
 
Did she ever take any pictures with it when she at last found the missing vehicle?
Hillegas: Yes. 

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69 comments

  • Early on somewhere while looking into this conundrum of a case, I read a post about a guy who KNEW his wife/girlfriend was cheating on him but couldn’t prove it. Somehow he realized that if she had not set up her “online” account HE could do it. He didn’t need a password. Made up a username, didn’t matter what and then created the password and voila he was in. This was apparently possible back in the day. I doubt this would work now. He speculates this is what RH did but he could not admit to impersonating her to access her records. The story is a bit longer than that but basically that’s how he was able to prove her infidelity. So, he either did that or he knew her username and password which is highly unlikely. Heck, I can hardly remember my own half the time :)

  • I do *67 all the time its not illegal. That doesn’t mean and I killed anyone, sliced their throat, stabbed them in stomach, shot them in head, raped them (how many times CAN YOU kill ONE PERSON?) How can you conclude any of this this (with charred bones ONLY in broken pieces) “I would love to know how did they come to these conclusions?” Where is their evidence no skin was on the bones, no blood, to see a sliced throat, stomach, how did they possibly came to this conclusion amazes me. Then you have a Canadian forensic analyst that states the ONLY WAY the body could been burned like this was to be placed inside VERY HIGH HEAT a CREAMTORY. Where Ken Kratz takes his dates according to the complaint report of Jim Doyle the Governor, is the morgue to watch autopsies (like its normal to take a date to the morgue) maybe they had a crematory close by, being Ken has been clinically diagnosed with Malignant Narcissism personality disorder (a very toxic disorder)!!! I feel the reason they found no blood ANYWHER the body wasn’t murdered BY or AT Avery’s. It was like the Canadian forensic analyst said…

    • No kidding Teresa wasn’t killed at the Avery’s. Before she had a chance to start bleeding, the cops created a fantasy for Brendan to confess that had her tied up with rope and chains that went halfway up her arms and legs, connected to the small wooden bed in Steven’s tiny trailer bedroom. A bedroom about twice the size of the double bed, yet both guys could stand by the bed while Teresa supposedly was struggling for her life and raped twice on that bed. In between phone calls where Steven spoke to his girlfriend for 15 minutes at a time–recorded by the jail where she was being held on felony drunk driving….he’s not short of breath, angry, emotional–yet he’s supposedly raping and killing a woman–his first time–in the bedroom! Defies common sense.

      I think this healthy and strong young woman would have scratched and broken that small bed with those imaginary chains (never found, of course) when these heavy guys tried to rape her (or left to answer the phone. It never happened. Come on. No way. There was no talk of drugging her or knocking her unconscious…a strong young woman is not simply tied up and willingly assaulted. And then the stabbing in the stomach–horrifically painful and bloody–and slicing her neck–again so bloody. And then, they supposedly untied and unchained her to take her down that tiny hallway–without touching the wall with any part of their semen and blood-soaked bodies or hers? Give me a break. The police were there just a few days later, and there was no sign of blood, violence, bleach….not even a scratch of the bedposts or in that tiny hallway, or a drop of something on the mattress. The police left the place completely destroyed after their 8-day marathon search and plant evidence mission, but presumably, under all the stuff they dragged from closets and turned out of drawers, the carpet was clear of blood, etc.

      It makes me think of Dexter and the plastic rooms he created for his murders–they could never do that series today with Ken Kratz here to tell us people don’t actually bleed! I heard a forensics guy once discussing how they measured spray patterns from puncture wounds–guess he must have been delusional? Anyone in Wisconsin prison because of blood spray evidence should hire Kratz as their appellate lawyer. He must be able to prove it doesn’t really happen.

  • Even though you claim the above is a full transcript of Ryan’s testimony, you now know that this is not the case. Now that the full transcripts are available, much of your analysis in this article falls apart, such as “First, notice that Ryan actually avoids answering the question which simply asks what time he had heard that Teresa had gone missing.” In fact he answered it (“around 3:00 or so”).

    I’ve read Ryan’s full testimony. At no time does he admit that he knows Teresa’s voicemail password or that he has ever accessed it. (He says he only accessed her Cingular account on the computer after she disappeared.) What is your evidence that he was monitoring her voicemails?

    • I was far more interested in the contradictions in his testimony:

      “Q. Okay. So you were over there quite a bit during that last six months or so?
      A. I wouldn’t say quite a bit.
      Q. Once a week?
      A. Occasionally, once a week, maybe.
      Q. Okay. Okay. Over that time, would it be fair to say that you became accustomed with Teresa’s habits and routines, generally?
      A. No, I wouldn’t say that.
      Q. Well, did you know, for instance, was she a homebody; did she like to go out?
      A. She kind of did what she wanted. Sometimes I would go over there and, you know, not see her the three times that I stopped that week. And the following week I could go there and I would be there three nights in a row when she would be there every night, just depended.”

      Which is it, once a week, or three times a week? So many questions..

      • I found that interesting, too. But it doesn’t change the fact that our fearless leader’s analysis of Ryan’s testimony, which he probably transcribed from the documentary, is largely invalid because of all the gaps in the testimony. Mike Halbach, on the other hand, admitted to accessing the voicemails. Yet Strang inexplicably didn’t follow up to ask him what he discovered by listening to them. (See p.185 of day 1 transcript.) I find that omission mind boggling, but that’s what happened. I don’t know what to make of it. Maybe those voicemails were saved, entered into evidence, and discussed later. I don’t know.

        • I concur. And it’s even more so of a tragedy on Teresa’s behalf, that neither Mike or Ryan were considered as suspects. So many inconsistencies. I don’t know what to think anymore.

          p.s. Nice username.

        • Likewise.

        • It does seem strange, but it could be that it would be considered hear-say. Unless someone had the actual messages, he could say anything and get away with it. Not exactly reliable info, which is why hear-say testimony isn’t worth it. Also lack of other aspects like context.

    • Good eye. If I’m wrong about something, I’m happy to have someone point it out. To be honest, I haven’t gone over all of his court testimony yet, but I’ll probably be doing that sometime today. Thanks for your comment.

  • I found something curious within Ryan’s testimony in the court transcripts. I posted it on reddit and most people agree it is VERY shady. https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/41x2lc/was_it_once_a_week_or_3_times_a_week_ryan/

    • Good spot, Chris. I actually noticed that too and noticed him contradict himself. Slip up.. or maybe he was over a LOT more than he led on…

      • Yep. I really think he was trying to minimize his relationship with both TH and the roommate Scott. But then he went on to say “I would know if they were romantic” and how he knew her daily habits. Stalker much?

  • I thought it was strange that Ryan wouldn’t say what time he saw Teresa on Sunday. It has occurred to me that he and roommate Scott were complicit in some malfeasance. The reason Ryan wouldn’t say what time he saw her on Sunday is that he didn’t know if the roommate had already given an answer, and couldn’t risk his answer being different than roommate’s. Maybe she was two-timing them both with each other, so they killed her, and decided to make it a perfect crime like Leopold and Loeb.

    • There’s a lot we simply don’t know about Teresa’s relationship with the other people in her life. I’m hoping that people will continue to ask questions so we can find out.

      • Yes, victimology is totally missing so far. Her life was wider than just taking pictures at the Avery Salvage Yard.

        Since she was freelance, she would have had a mileage record diary for tax purposes. What else was in the RAV? I keep mine in my glovebox. Was this checked against her appointments? If the RAV travelled more miles than her last appointment would have required, there is more to this. I’m not a big fan of in-built GPS, but in this case, it would have been very handy.

  • A.) Great work daniel… don’t listen to these Asshat nay sayers . B.) Aren’t you curious if it actually hillegas telling you to stop?

    • Firs, thanks for the very nice words. I know for sure it’s him a lot of the time, and some of his supporters. Funny thing is though, for a many who is being publicly suspected of something as serious as murder, you’d think more of his supporters would show up, but it seems like just the opposite is happening. Just a moment ago a woman left a comment which says as much:

      Agreed ^^ Hillegas is sketchy as fuck … can’t believe I have to work in the same hospital as him. I should probably start packing heat.

      I’ve also shared many of my thoughts about Ryan’s participation on the forum. Funny too that after I posted, I haven’t heard from anyone who sounds like Ryan.

      http://www.overthrow.us/ryan-hillegas/corpse-of-the-imagination/

  • Daniel, not sure if you already know this or not. Pam Sturm who “discovered” the Toyota Rav 4 was a former private investigator in Green Bay, and was also a second cousin of Teresa’s Halbach’s father. You mentioned wishing to know “if he remembered what time of day it was when the search was conducted.” I’m not quite sure how much of the search was done on Friday evening, if any, but the overall search was most definitely in effect Saturday morning. As far as finding the actual vehicle, at 9:50 a.m., Pam and Nicole pulled into the dirt driveway of Avery Auto Salvage.

    I have gotten this info from an article written in 2006. Also, check out this part about Ryan:
    “On the Sunday before she disappeared, Hillegas ran into Teresa at a friend’s house. Halbach told him she planned to join her family at a bar in Appleton for a Halloween party. She was dressed as a cowgirl.

    On Tuesday, Hillegas called to ask Halbach about the party. Her voicemail box was full. “Which was weird for someone with a business,” he says. “She’s not the kind of person who would just take off and not call.”

    By Thursday, he knew something was wrong. With the help of a friend, he went to Teresa’s house, fired up her computer and printed out a list of names and phone numbers of everyone she knew. The search was on.”

    Finally, I thought this sentence really stood out:

    “The discovery of Teresa’s car opened the floodgates, sending more than 150 law enforcement agents to the compound.”

    http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2006/05/01/blood-simple/

    • The search party met and began searching between 8am and 9am. Pam Sturm was a straggler that day according to Ryan and arrived after almost everyone else had already left to search their appointed territories. The car was found at 9:50am. From the time Pam Sturm actually began searching, and the time she found the car, I doubt if more than thirty minutes had passed.

      Ken Kratz asked Ryan

      Even As an untrained law enforcement officer, you knew to look for the last place she was seen alive.

      Was Ryan, at least in the mind of Ken Kratz and maybe others, an (untrained) law enforcement officer? Was he treated as an equal among members of law enforcement in that community and surrounding areas? Was he ever granted special privileges? What kind of channel was Ryan keeping open with law enforcement, and they with him?

      Lastly, why wasn’t Avery Salvage the first place searched instead of the last, and almost as an afterthought by the way Ryan makes it sound?

  • You the man Daniel… Even if it weren't Hillegas, and in fact it was the GERMAN… You're doing a solid and I'd love to help you ask these questions to all involved. Contact me at jpowell412@gmail.com please… I live in the chicago area and these innocent men need a retrial at the least.

  • The original passwords for the voicemails on cellphones being 0000 or 1234 is normal, a great example is the News international/Sunday World/Rupert Murdoch hacking scandal in the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacking_scandal (that was how so many famous peoples phones were hacked by reporters). Online accounts are often defaulted either way too.

    Also, possibly Hillegas got it wrong, potentially there was no username required, just the cellphone number as evidenced by your waybackmachine screenshot.

    Many possibilities, but if it was a simple sisters dob, with the cellphone number, then that could be sorted quite easily by the men that were present.

    Have you contacted Cingular and asked them what their policies were on usernames and passwords for that period. Like were cellphone numbers used as usernames? And when default passwords were changed, was there a requirement for letters, capitals, special characters? And did passwords need to be a certain amount of characters? Worth trying to find that out, to see if it tallies to his answers!

  • I have had about 15 cells since 05, it really is common to have password 0000 or last 4 of number upon purchase. They ask you to change it but many do not. Last few years some of the larger companies have improved method. All the post here are correct. A simple boring fact you forgot or have not had many cells.

  • Great Job Agree with All of this Sketchy Sketchy

  • Colborn, looking at the plates and vehicle, called them in from his cell phone on November 3 when it was discovered in one of 3 places: Avery lot, rock quarry or abandoned somewhere on a road.

    If the vehicle was found in Aveyr lot, was Colborn tipped off? If the tip was made via phone call it would likely not have been made to the MCSO line where it would have been recorded. It was either done in person or to his cell phone.

    If he was not tipped off that the vehicle would be at the Avery lot, then it was placed in that lot BY THE MCSO or he went to the lot on a hunch and found it, then called it in.

    The most likely guess I have is the RAV4 was spotted on roadside or the quarry and was TOWED to the Avery lot. The vehicle was pretty busted up, missing a headlight, wheel well damage, etc. Looks like it was towed.

    I hope the new investigation does the single largest cell phone dive in modern history to really piece this together.

  • It's funny how no one in the town seems very interested in answers to any of these important questions. We're going to start finding out though. It's only a matter of time before this house of cards tumbles to the ground.

  • Not any cell phone I've ever been given. I don't think it was particularly easy to for the average person to hack someone's acct. even back in 2005.

  • Why is it obvious that she didn't have an online account set up?

  • I read a quote from the court documents where an employee from the phone company testified that the 4:35pm call was from Steven Avery, was 13 seconds long and she could not tell if he left a message or not.

    I think Nancy Grace is being fed this stuff by Ken Kratz and she is exaggerating things and adding stuff to make it sound more incriminating, directly feeding this false & damaging information to the public. Maybe she realizes she is embellishing and thinks it's harmless but in doing so she is altering the truth in such a dangerous way.

    There was another thing she said regarding *67 & how SA called Teresa using this method and intentionally gave her a fake name to lure her out. He gave her his sisters name bc is was her van Teresa was photographing & he scheduled the appointment that way. He used *67 later on in the afternoon, after he had already scheduled the appointment. This is such a dangerous road our press is allowed to go down.

  • That link is amazing!

  • Why DID Ryan have a map of the property prepared? Good question…

  • Exactly right. A few people are still given cells with that being password (all zeros or last four of number) and asked to change. Some do not.

  • Good point.

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  • really wanna know what avery said about that 430PM call… first i am hearing he left a voice mail, etc… this case is so fubar. lot of new stuff here that i find intereesting…

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/40dquo/prodefense_information_that_was_left_out_of_mam/

  • She said his blood was in 6 places in her car, one of which was on the ignition
    Keys were stashed away in a bookshelf in his bedroom
    Yup she says he called her a 4th time several hours later, after her death and says hey where are you at? As if she never showed up and creating a alibi. Said this call was not blocked so it shows on records.

    • Steven said he wanted her to take a picture of another vehicle. “Where are you at” is simply asking is she nearby. Can she come by for what would be considered a hustle shot – one not originally scheduled.

      • What is a “hustle” shot? Sounds like it has to do with shooting pool, not pics…

        • In work arena it means in a hurry. Hustle_______.

        • It means that it’s opportunistic and not ordered ahead of time through the magazine. “hustle” as in creating an opportunity to sell something else. If the photographer, in this case, is taking a shot of one car and notices another next door with a for sale sign on as well, he or she might approach that seller and ask them if they’d like to be in Auto Trader and take a shot.

          They photog gets more money for those shots because they bring the business in. It’s sort of a commission sale. The customer pays the same, but the photog gets the bonus.

        • Auto trader paid extra to an employee who got business on their own and took pictures for their mag…its business for Auto Trader that was not booked through their offices…the photographer “hustled” that pic….It was business Teresa came up with on her own…much like referral business.

  • i had to google what "HLN" is, seems its a tv channel.. no television signal here i'm afraid so please write update if you gleam any decent nugs out of your "HLN" show. thx.

  • Try to watch her show right now plz. Plus she says the key fell out of the nightstand

  • the 430pm call is something i need to know more about. cant find info on it. the first two calls in the 210 or 220 range make sense if he is calling to ask like "when might u be here?" since they did have an appointment setup.

    but IF the *67 is true, why *67 a person that you know is on their way to you and one you plan to speak to? that doesnt make sense…

    also.. i read that halbach phoned the auto trader heserlf to say that she'd be at avery in 10 min or so and that was also around 2ish or 210ish or something..

    others says they say her at 340.. the bus lady, propane guy, etc.

    so far, teh only thign i have FROM steven avery on a timeline is that small nancy grace snippet where he said halbach came and left between 2pm and 230pm…

    a one hour difference is too huge to ignore.. how are we gettng from 230ish to 340ish.. someting not adding up.. nothing makes any sense whatsoever.

    now, someone has found via scanning teh docu, apparently screen grabs from the FIRST SEARCH that clearly shows the spot where slippers were with no key, etc…

    i think many, many manitoWACK authority folks are shitting bricks right now.

    • Teresa was almost 2 hrs late for that appointment. So if you wanted to get someone on the horn, and you didn’t want them to ignore the call because they’re running late to see you, then using *67 to wipe the ident makes sense. But, yeah, the *67 feature was only made available to murderers. Dang.

  • That special is on now! HLN
    See if she says that about voicemail

  • Where is the NSA's phone storage when you need? They only do what suits them.

  • Nancy did a special on the evidence against Steven. She says Steven left her a voicemail trying to set up a alibi. I'll go to her site and see if I can find the video.
    That was my first time hearing about the voicemail where he is saying she didn't show.

    So is it safe to say the two blocked calls she got in her cell are just being said that Steven called her using *67? There was never proof it was actually him?

    • He wasn’t saying she never came. He called st 4:30 to see if she was nearby to come back and take a photo of another car. Nancy doesn’t do her research.

      • Is she still on one about all this, or has she backed off yet?

      • Nancy Grace isn’t paying attention to the actual records. The call at 4.30ish was from CHICAGO, not the Milwaukee area. It wasn’t answered and went to voice mail under Call Forward No Answer, CFNA on the record. Don’t believe anything Grace says without seeing with your own eyes. She’s a parrot.

        I’m still waiting on anyone to show me actual evidence any call came from Steve Avery after 2.30.

        Do a search on Teresa Halbach phone record. I have a photo of it from the evidence, so I know it’s out there to be found.

  • stacy – That the "nuisance caller" was not looked into is one of the most difficult things to get past in this whole b.s. ordeal. not having read any transcripts, perhaps they did fully check into it and found nothing.. i just dont know.

    as for a timeline and your 430 question, what i do know is that avery was on nancy grace doing a telephone interview a few days before they actaully accrested him so mamye like november 1 or november 2

    in that phone interview, steven said halbach was there between 2 and 230 and he then he watched her leave. he then said later that day he went to get wood at "menards" with his brother and explained that someone could get in an out of the "pit" easily becasue there were many ways in and out.. that is direct from steven via phone interview.

    so avery says 2 to 230pm and then she left. this is a full hour earlier than the bus driver woman gives of 340 which seems odd.?

    sadly, i dont think this case will EVER BE SOLVED and its just one of those annoying things where u wish ya knew but never found out.

    • If Grace interviewed him on Nov 1 or 2, she was in on it! TH wasn’t reported missing until 3 November. :-)

      The time estimate from SA could be way off — it was the time he’d originally thought she would be there, probably stuck in his mind. He wasn’t paying attention. It didn’t mean anything to him. She was just missing, left his place, he didn’t think it would be necessary to recall.

      Put yourself in that position –
      Q. What time did the postman come to your house yesterday? He’s missing.
      A. Oh, he’s missing? No, I didn’t have anything to do with it. He was there at 10 (being the normal time, but actually he was running late and was there at 11)
      Q. But this is the last place he was seen.
      A. I dunno. I went to the shops.

  • I want to see the phone records badly! How do they know he *67 her twice? Did his house phone company have a list of his outbound calls?
    Nancy Grace (I know ugh lol) said Steven left her a voicemail asking where she was bc she didn't show. I think she said at like 4:30ish. Is that true?

      • Thanks for those. This doesn’t square with Halbach records. This needs further investigation.
        Note on her record, the 4.35 call did NOT hit a cell tower. It’s got 00000 like the remaining calls on her record. It can’t be recorded both ways and be accurate.

        The other weirdness is that Steve’s record says the call was answered. Makes me wonder how accurate that column is given the lack of tower connection on TH’s record. There is no evidence on TH’s record that a call went to voicemail at all.

        In the Syed case, there were many weirdnesses around the cell phone records. Seems the time calculations (seconds) may be based in the network rather than the handset. It starts counting from the time the call is placed.

        Even so, IF (a big if) Steve called her number, it could have a natural explanation — another car to sell, setting another appointment, a question about when the photos would appear since it was a last minute appointment (per AutoTrader reception testimony), any number of things.

        Remember: Kratz is making shit up to suit his story.

        Thanks again for that find.

  • Did the police speak with the Scott Bloedorn (roommate)? Why did he immediately call Ryan? Did he believe they were perhaps together? If so, would that suggest that Ryan and Theresa were more than simply friends. What are Scott's recollections of this cell phone account cracking? What did they find when they went into the account? Why did Ryan have a map of the property prepared?

    Anon makes a good point about the the phone- if RH had the phone he may have deleted the messages immediately– but were he really devious, the on-line cracking could have been elaborate show to divert attention and make it look like he had to 'guess'.

  • It was only after she was officially declared missing that it would have made sense for Ryan to delete any voicemails. If Ryan had deleted any of the calls immediately after killing her, there was no guarantee that more VMs wouldn't have been in the interim of three days between when she went missing and when she was declared as missing. During this interim, anyone could have called that number, including Steven Avery, and left a VM. If there were a vm on her phone from Steven Avery, he might have said something that was inconvenient for Ryan or even exculpating. But I do appreciate your comment. I intend to address the phone records in a future post. Hopefully I'll be able to obtain more information than just the few documents floating around the internet to make my case.

  • Your evidence against Ryan is even weaker than you claim the States evidence was against Avery. You should probably knock this off. You've proved your point, drawn attention to the case and unfortunately harassed the Avery's. Just end this circus.

  • That's really strange that you say if he killed her he would have had her phone. Not necessarily. Maybe in the panic of the kill he didn't think to grab her phone. And maybe in his panic he didn't think about any voicemails for a couple days also. I mean, if he killed her, he's probably not in his right mind so anything is possible. The dude was all jumpy and jittery when he was interviewed about the search, he was obviously not thinking clearly then, so I can't even imagine how he was acting after the kill, if he killed her. I don't get why you assume he had the phone. And maybe it was three days later when he realized he should try to delete those damn calls that he made.

  • Jesus Christ dude. Do something meaningful with your time. Even if you think you've found something, it's not going to be taken seriously because this blog sounds like someone having a psychotic episode. Go home.

  • Someone did Delray the first few calls.

  • Here is the hole in your theory. If he killed her, he would have had her phone and could have just deleted any voicemails then. Or he could have gone home right after the crime and deleted the voicemails by guessing or however he got into her account. Why would he wait 3 days to delete them? I mean, if he killed her, he knew they would be looking for her, right?

  • Back then it was common for the password to be 0000 or the last 4 of your phone number.

    • I had a cellcom account. I had set up my online account and it never gave me a temporary password. I had to come up with my own user name and password. I still have cellcom, but due to our income going down, we had to cancel our contract and go with a pay as you go; which isn't the point, but when we first got the account, we never had a temporary password. Not even when we had Sprint before cellcom. We've also had track phones and again, when we signed up online, we were not given temporary passwords of 0000 or the last 4 numbers of the cell number because you didn't get a number until you signed up.

  • He didn't have to guess the username. It's very common that if you don't have an online account setup yet, which She obviously didn't, you are prompted to create a username. The password exists from when you created the account.