Ryan Hillegas’ Complete Court Testimony

Thanks to loyal reader Anonymous #106 (moved from the comment section)

In reply to Gem.here ya go…

RYAN HILLEGAS, called as a witness
25 herein, having been first duly sworn, was
1 examined and testified as follows:
2 THE CLERK: Please be seated. Please state
3 your name and spell your last name for the record.
4 THE WITNESS: Ryan Hillegas, last name is
5 H-i-l-l-e-g-a-s.
6 ATTORNEY KRATZ: You can back up just a
7 little bit, Mr. Hillegas, since the microphone is
8 certainly loud enough for you.
11 Q. Mr. Hillegas, did you know a woman by the name of
12 Teresa Halbach?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. How did you know Teresa?
15 A. I guess she was a long time friend. We had dated
16 for five years or so, end of high school and
17 early part of college.
18 Q. At some point, did you and Ms Halbach stop being
19 boyfriend/girlfriend?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Did you remain on friendly terms with her?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. How often would you speak with her?
24 A. Maybe once every week, sometimes every couple,
25 but definitely kept in touch every week or two.
1 Q. During the time period of October, 2005, were you
2 aware of Ms Halbach’s living arrangements?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And what were they, if you recall?
5 A. She lived in a house with a friend of ours, Scott
6 Bloedorn.
7 Q. Scott was also a friend of yours; is that right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And was it your understanding that Scott and
10 Teresa had any kind of a romantic relationship?
11 A. No, no romantic relationship.
12 Q. Just roommates?
13 A. Just roommates.
14 Q. Mr. Hillegas, are you familiar with how close the
15 residence that Teresa lived in was to her
16 parents’ house?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Where was it?
19 A. Her parents lived roughly a quarter mile down the
20 road.
21 Q. And are you also familiar with the vehicle that
22 Teresa drove at the time?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Could you tell us about that vehicle, please?
25 A. It was a Toyota RAV4, a blue-green color,
1 combination blue-green.
2 Q. I show you what’s been received as Exhibit No. 5;
3 it’s on the large screen. Is that the — both
4 the photograph of Teresa Halbach and also her
5 RAV4?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Mr. Hillegas, when was the first time that you
8 heard that your friend, Teresa, had gone missing?
9 A. It was Thursday, after Halloween, which would
10 have made it the 3rd, I believe, of November,
11 then.
12 Q. And on November 3rd, can you tell the jury what
13 you did, please?
14 A. Yeah, in the afternoon, I believe it was, I’m
15 going to say around 3:00 or so, Scott had called
16 me and said that Teresa’s dad had went over and
17 asked if he had seen Teresa. And Scott called me
18 and I went over to the house that afternoon.
19 Basically, tried digging up any
20 information on where she might be. We started
21 calling her friends. We found a list of her
22 friends on her computer with all their numbers.
23 So we started calling all them to see if anybody
24 had whereabouts. And then after that we printed
25 off her cell phone records off the internet, just
1 to see what calls she had made, or other numbers
2 of friends we could find on there.
3 Q. Let me just stop you at that point.
4 Mr. Hillegas, finding her cell phone records, how
5 does something like that occur? How did you do
6 that?
7 A. Well, there were a couple of us that tried
8 figuring it out. Basically figured out her
9 password and made up a user name that worked and
10 got into her phone records and printed it right
11 off.
12 Q. Had you known at that time that she hadn’t been
13 seen since the 31st of October?
14 A. Basically, I knew that she was missing. I didn’t
15 know she hadn’t been seen by anybody. But I knew
16 that — knew that she was missing or decided that
17 she was missing at that point.
18 Q. After printing off or getting access to her cell
19 phone records, I assume to her account, through
20 her cell phone provider; were you able to provide
21 that information to law enforcement authorities?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. You said that you had called some people; what
24 kind of calls were you making?
25 A. Well, the — I mean, we called all her friends
1 and basically just said that, you know, we
2 haven’t seen her, and wondering whereabouts.
3 None of those people really turned anything up
4 for us. And, then, we had called a good list of,
5 like, the last numbers she had called and numbers
6 on her phone.
7 Q. Now, on the 3rd — By the way, that would be the
8 first day that she had been reported missing; is
9 that your understanding?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. On the 3rd, were there other friends or other
12 family members who were assisting you in the
13 search effort?
14 A. Yes. Yeah, it was me, Scott Bloedorn, one of her
15 girlfriends, Kelly Bitsen (phonetic) came over.
16 I believe a little later another friend, named
17 Lisa, was over as well.
18 Q. About how long that evening did you work on this
19 project?
20 A. Well, for the good portion of the night,
21 probably, I guess, until midnight, 1:00. We were
22 calling friends and other people we didn’t get a
23 hold of and people that were finally returning
24 calls later. Better portion of the night.
25 Q. The next day, the 4th, Friday, the 4th of
1 November; did you become, again, actively
2 involved in the search for Teresa?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Tell the jury what you did, please.
5 A. Yeah, that afternoon, you know, it was probably
6 late morning, but I had talked to the family.
7 And they had arranged with the missing persons
8 organization out of Appleton; they were printing
9 up fliers, missing person fliers. And they just
10 asked me if I could pick them up and arrange, you
11 know, how we would get them out.
12 That was kind of the afternoon. I went
13 and picked up the posters, probably early
14 afternoon, noon, 1:00. And when I had gotten
15 back, then, to Teresa’s house, there was a good
16 number of family members and friends who were
17 waiting to, basically, find out what they can do
18 and go pass the fliers out.
19 Q. I will show you what’s been received as Exhibit
20 No. 10; are these the missing person posters that
21 you are talking about?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. About how many of those posters did you assist in
24 not only having produced, but in distributing?
25 A. I’m going to estimate, but probably, geez,
1 somewhere — I don’t know, probably between a
2 thousand and 2,000, maybe 3,000. They were all
3 over the place, I guess.
4 Q. Did you receive assistance from her employer, or
5 at least one of her employers, Auto Trader
6 Magazine?
7 A. To handle the fliers?
8 Q. Just to get information from them.
9 A. I never spoke with anybody from Auto Trader.
10 Q. Okay. An organization that did help you, though,
11 and it’s up in the top left hand corner of this
12 exhibit, is something called YES, Youth Educated
13 in Safety; is that right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. This missing persons search organization, did
16 they provide you with some technical and other
17 assistance?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. The distribution efforts, that is, getting these
20 posters out; who was in charge of that?
21 A. I guess I was kind of the unofficial leader,
22 coordinator, of the effort, if you could call it
23 that.
24 Q. How many people did you have to help?
25 A. Well, when I got back to the house that day,
1 there were — I’m estimating here, but probably
2 between 30 and 45 people. That was on just the
3 first afternoon, when we handed them out. But
4 then we had contacted truck stops and faxed
5 fliers.
6 We had people just stopping by
7 throughout the day to pick up fliers. Just to
8 put them out anywhere we could. I know there
9 were people out pretty late on Friday night and
10 still putting up fliers and driving city to city.
11 Q. Did your efforts, Mr. Hillegas, include the
12 media?
13 A. A little bit, yes.
14 Q. And this information — information about the
15 missing person, where she was last seen and those
16 kind of things, was that distributed to the
17 media, as far as you know?
18 A. Yeah. And they had fliers too, so …
19 Q. Now, with you being the — whether you want to
20 call it official or unofficial, being the
21 coordinator of this citizen search effort on that
22 Friday, that is, the day after Teresa was
23 reported missing; what other efforts were being
24 developed to try to find Teresa?
25 A. Well, after Friday and we had got the posters out
1 basically kind of through the instruction of the
2 YES Foundation and their recommendations, first
3 they wanted us to get fliers out and make as many
4 people aware as we could, all about Teresa and
5 that she was missing. After that, it was kind of
6 to go a little more and basically to search.
7 Friday night after the posters were done
8 being handed out, we had gotten back and me and
9 Scott, for most of the night decided — we kind
10 of planned a road search, I guess you could call
11 it, where everybody got in their vehicles and
12 drove certain parts of roads and maps that we had
13 plotted out for them, just to make sure we
14 covered everything, but … So Friday night we
15 pretty much planned on an all day road search
16 that went on Saturday, with volunteers again.
17 Q. Well, Friday night you said that you were making
18 some maps; how was that done?
19 A. Satellite imagery off the internet mostly,
20 otherwise just Map Quest.
21 Q. Maps of what?
22 A. Maps of, you know, the areas we wanted to search.
23 We kind of blew up smaller portions so you could
24 see the roads better and county highways out in
25 the Manitowoc area near the Averys, any kind of
1 county highway. Basically, we tried to cover
2 anything from Hilbert to Green Bay, all the way
3 to the lake. Pretty much covering as much land
4 as we could.
5 Q. Well, this was a citizen search effort; is that
6 right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. In other words, family members and friends and
9 very — very much so just a citizen effort
10 coordinated by you; is that right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Let me ask you something, Mr. Hillegas, why would
13 you center or why would you direct some of your
14 search efforts around the Avery property?
15 A. Well, mostly for the fact that, you know, the
16 media had covered so much of it. You know, all
17 you heard about was around the Avery property.
18 And I believe at that point we had known that,
19 you know, her last kind of whereabouts were in
20 that neck of the woods.
21 Q. So even as an untrained law enforcement officer,
22 you knew to look for the last place she was seen
23 alive; is that right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Okay. It didn’t strike you as being unfair to
1 Mr. Steven Avery, did it?
2 A. No.
3 Q. All right. Now, these physical searches, you
4 said the road searches and things like that; how
5 many people were involved in that effort?
6 A. Well, throughout the day on Saturday there were
7 people kind of coming and going, people getting
8 up, work late in the morning, still wanted to
9 help. Estimate, say probably Saturday’s effort
10 was a little bigger than Friday, probably between
11 80 and 110 people, I would guess.
12 Q. All right. So over 100 of Teresa’s friends and
13 family and relatives were gathered to look for
14 her Saturday morning; is that right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. What time did you all convene and where did this
17 happen?
18 A. Everybody met at Teresa’s house. I believe
19 everybody was there early, probably 6, 6:30, a
20 good portion of them were there by about that. I
21 would say between 6 and 7 is when everybody got
22 there.
23 Q. Tell us about that morning; what happened that
24 morning.
25 A. Well, everybody pretty much met in the driveway.
1 Me and Scott, by that point in the morning, had
2 all the maps arranged. But we had a large map
3 that we printed out with kind of smaller
4 sectioned areas that we had printed smaller maps
5 out for everybody to use.
6 Basically had everybody line up and come
7 in the back of the house. And they were to walk
8 through, once they got in the kitchen, we kind of
9 gave them an assignment, groups of one car or
10 two, we would give the same map to and have them
11 all cover the same area to make sure all the
12 roads were all covered.
13 But everybody had an assignment. When
14 they were done with their assignment, pretty much
15 instructed to call back and we would give them a
16 new assigned area to cover, one that hadn’t
17 been — that we hadn’t sent any people to yet.
18 Q. Just kind of a grid search?
19 A. Basically, yes.
20 Q. All right. Do you know Pam Sturm or her
21 daughter, Nikole Sturm?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. How do you know Pam and Nikole?
24 A. I had met them Saturday morning. They showed up
25 after the good majority of everybody else had
1 left. But that was the first time I had met
2 them.
3 Q. After, then, the first wave, if you will, of
4 citizens got their maps and they went off to do
5 their search; what did you and Pam Sturm discuss?
6 A. Well, Pam had showed up after pretty much the
7 whole group of everybody had already left to
8 search in the morning. And we had a good — you
9 know, so many people, we had a good portion of
10 everything that we had divvied up. Good portion
11 of that was already handed out to other people.
12 Wasn’t much area left to search yet.
13 And she just asked, basically came out
14 and said, had anybody gone to the car yard yet,
15 the Avery Salvage Yard. We just said, no, that
16 we hadn’t been sending anybody in there and she
17 offered to and said she would be willing to
18 and —
19 ATTORNEY BUTING: Objection, your Honor,
20 hearsay.
21 THE COURT: Mr. Kratz.
22 ATTORNEY KRATZ: Not offered for the truth,
23 Judge. It’s where Pam eventually goes. I can
24 certainly go on to another question. I’m not
25 inquiring any further into conversations.
1 THE COURT: Assuming that witness is going
2 to be testifying later, I will agree; I will allow
3 it.
4 Q. (By Attorney Kratz)~ Before Pam left, then, to
5 travel to the Avery Salvage Yard, was she
6 provided a map or any other information?
7 A. Yes. Yes, I gave her a map.
8 Q. What other information was she provided, if you
9 know?
10 A. I gave her a map about the area out there and how
11 to get out there. Scott had borrowed her his
12 camera just in case they were to find something.
13 Q. Do you know what kind of camera it was?
14 A. A digital camera, I don’t know what brand.
15 Q. When you say provided them, who was with Pam?
16 A. Pam and her daughter.
17 Q. Nikole?
18 A. Nikole, yes.
19 Q. All right. Do you know about what time Pam and
20 Nikole left, then, for the Avery property?
21 A. I’m going to estimate, but I would probably say
22 somewhere between quarter to 8 and 8:00 maybe.
23 Q. Sometime later that day, without telling us the
24 words or what you heard, but did you hear some
25 results of what Pam and Nikole Sturm had found
1 out at the location?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Even after Pam and Nikole’s discovery, later on
4 the 5th, did you and other citizens remain
5 involved in search efforts?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Can you describe those for the jury, please.
8 A. Well, the car search on Saturday went all day,
9 pretty much into the night again. And Saturday
10 night, then, once everybody was done searching,
11 we met back at the house and started planning our
12 next endeavor to go on, I guess you could say.
13 Q. Let me — Let me just stop you. After the car —
14 After the SUV was found, in this case; you kept
15 searching, you kept your search efforts going?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Why?
18 A. Well, we hadn’t found Teresa.
19 Q. Do you remember what locations your citizens
20 searched for Teresa?
21 A. Yeah. You know, we went through all the cities,
22 neighboring cities around Manitowoc County.
23 Sunday, we had started doing fields and parks and
24 ditches next to the highways, any place that, I
25 guess, something could or somebody could be put
1 and, you know, not be visibly seen. But Sunday
2 we started doing actual walk-throughs of land and
3 property near the Averys.
4 Q. It’s a hard question, Ryan, but you were looking
5 for Teresa’s body; is that right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did you continue to receive technical assistance
8 in assigning citizens to this effort?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Who did you get assistance from?
11 A. Well, basically, the YES Foundation, again. We
12 took any advice from them that we could, since
13 Jay Breyer, who was, I guess, the leader of it,
14 or the guy who runs it, he had seemed to have a
15 lot of experience in missing person cases.
16 Q. Did you personally proceed near the Avery salvage
17 property and did you engage in searches of that
18 area?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Do you remember where you — where you looked
21 around there —
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. — just briefly.
24 A. Yeah, we — we did, like Maribel County Park is
25 near there. We did some private — or public
1 land that was pretty much adjacent to Avery
2 property, but behind it all. Any field somewhere
3 around there that were outside the police bounds
4 that we could get to, basically we searched.
5 Q. Mr. Hillegas, was this all before human remains
6 were found on the Avery property itself?
7 A. I believe so, yes.
8 Q. After you learned — I assume you learned at some
9 point that human bones and human remains were
10 found; is that right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. After that point, did you continue with your
13 search efforts or did you call them off?
14 A. No, we called the search off then.
15 ATTORNEY KRATZ: That’s all I have of
16 Mr. Hillegas, Judge. Thank you.
17 THE COURT: All right. I think at this
18 time we will take our afternoon break. We’ll come
19 back in 15 minutes.
20 Members of the jury, I will remind you,
21 again, not to discuss the case during the break.
22 We’ll see you in 15 minutes.
23 (Jury not present.)
24 THE COURT: Ten to three, counsel.
25 ATTORNEY KRATZ: Thank you, Judge.
1 (Recess taken.)
2 (Jury present.)
3 THE COURT: Mr. Buting, at this time you
4 may begin your cross-examination of the witness.
5 ATTORNEY BUTING: Thank you, your Honor.
8 Q. Mr. Hillegas, can you give me a little bit of
9 background on how long you knew Teresa?
10 A. Sure. I met Teresa, I believe, when I was a
11 freshmen in high school and I have known her ever
12 since.
13 Q. And did you grow up in the same general town,
14 then, I take it?
15 A. She lived in St. John; I lived in Hilbert. We
16 went to the same high school.
17 Q. And then you went off — How are you employed by
18 the way?
19 A. I’m a registered nurse.
20 Q. And where are you working right now?
21 A. In Milwaukee.
22 Q. At various hospitals?
23 A. At Froedert Hospital.
24 Q. Okay. And back in October of 2005, where were
25 you working?
1 A. I was currently unemployed. I had just finished
2 school.
3 Q. Okay. So on October 31st, you were not working
4 at all?
5 A. That’s correct.
6 Q. And where were you living?
7 A. At home with my parents.
8 Q. Which is?
9 A. In Hilbert.
10 Q. In Hilbert, okay. Now, you said that you used to
11 date Teresa kind of on and off, or for how long
12 were you on and how long were you off?
13 A. Well, we dated for a total of five years, I
14 think. We broke up two or three times in the
15 middle for short periods, maybe for a month at a
16 time.
17 Q. So when was the last time you would say when you
18 broke up?
19 A. 2001, I believe.
20 Q. Was that your initiative or hers?
21 A. Just kind of a general understanding, kind of
22 both of us. We were just going separate ways,
23 so.
24 Q. Okay. And after that time, did you have any
25 interest in renewing that nature of that kind of
1 a relationship with her?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Now, Scott Bloedorn, was also a friend of yours,
4 right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Was he, back in October of 2005, your best
7 friend?
8 A. One of them, yes.
9 Q. Okay. Would you — When did he move in with
10 Teresa?
11 A. I don’t know that.
12 Q. Well, was it less than a year?
13 A. It was less than a year before that Halloween.
14 Q. Eight or nine months sound about right?
15 A. It might be. I guess I’m not sure.
16 Q. Okay. You have been over to that house before I
17 take it, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What’s the layout of the house? How is it set
20 up? How was it set up back then?
21 A. Well, Scott had — Scott’s room was upstairs.
22 Teresa’s was downstairs. It was kind of an —
23 almost an understanding; all Scott’s stuff was
24 upstairs and Teresa’s was downstairs. They kind
25 of had it split, shared a kitchen and the
1 bathroom.
2 Q. So they had sort of their own floors and separate
3 bedroom on each floor?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. But they shared the kitchen and you said the
6 bathroom, there was one bathroom they shared?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. So they would see each other frequently,
9 presumably, during the day? Is that a yes?
10 A. Sure. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. And did you come over and visit Scott
12 various times while he was living with Teresa?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And did you spend time over there; dinner,
15 watching TV, or a movie or something?
16 A. Occasionally, yes.
17 Q. Was it — Well, I take it, then, from — when you
18 say that you talked with her at least every other
19 week, or every week even?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. On the phone, or would you actually get together
22 with her, or what?
23 A. Either on the phone, or I would see her at the
24 house when I would go visit Scott.
25 Q. Okay. So you were over there quite a bit during
1 that last six months or so?
2 A. I wouldn’t say quite a bit.
3 Q. Once a week?
4 A. Occasionally, once a week, maybe.
5 Q. Okay. Okay. Over that time, would it be fair to
6 say that you became accustomed with Teresa’s
7 habits and routines, generally?
8 A. No, I wouldn’t say that.
9 Q. Well, did you know, for instance, was she a
10 homebody; did she like to go out?
11 A. She kind of did what she wanted. Sometimes I
12 would go over there and, you know, not see her
13 the three times that I stopped that week. And
14 the following week I could go there and I would
15 be there three nights in a row when she would be
16 there every night, just depended.
17 Q. Were you familiar with her circle of friends?
18 A. Most of them, yes.
19 Q. For instance, she went to UW Green Bay, right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And she worked in Green Bay?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. So she had a lot of friends in Green Bay?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And would she go out, socializing with those
1 friends, if you know?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you ever go with her when she would socialize
4 with that group of friends?
5 A. When we were dating, yeah. She was in Green Bay
6 the first — the last two years when we were
7 dating, so, occasionally, then, I would go out
8 with her and her friends, but other than that,
9 not really.
10 Q. Would you say she was a sociable person,
11 generally?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. She liked to be around people?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. She liked to go to parties?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Liked to go to bars?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Particularly karaoke bars, I think, was one of
20 her favorites?
21 A. I believe so, yes.
22 Q. Okay. And in 2005, were there times when you
23 would also go out with her to those kinds of
24 places, either parties or bars?
25 A. I don’t think I — I think the only bar — I
1 maybe only went out with her once that whole
2 year, probably just didn’t share that with her.
3 Q. And do you know whether Scott ever went out with
4 her to bars or parties?
5 A. A few times. I don’t believe it was too often.
6 Q. Okay. And when she would be home, do you know
7 whether she would have dinner there or whether
8 she would eat out? You know, what did she do at
9 home?
10 A. Occasionally she did both.
11 Q. Did she and Scott have dinner together?
12 A. Not that I’m aware. I mean, maybe they sat down
13 and ate a meal together, but.
14 Q. So you are not that familiar with what the
15 evening routine was; is what you’re saying?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Okay. Do you know whether it was unusual for her
18 to be out overnight during those last six months
19 or so?
20 A. Occasionally she would. I know she would go to
21 Green Bay and stay at a friend’s house overnight.
22 Q. Okay. Let me ask you about the weekend of
23 October 29th and 30th, 29th being Saturday; did
24 you see her or talk with her that day?
25 A. I don’t believe I talked to her on Saturday. I
1 don’t think so.
2 Q. Okay. Did you talk with her or see her on
3 Sunday?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And where was that?
6 A. At her house.
7 Q. And how did that come about?
8 A. I had just stopped briefly. I was dropping
9 something off for Scott and she was sitting there
10 at her computer.
11 Q. Do you know about what time that was?
12 A. I don’t know.
13 Q. I mean, are we talking morning, afternoon, night?
14 A. I don’t know.
15 Q. You don’t remember at all?
16 A. No.
17 Q. And she was just sitting at the computer?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did you talk to her at all?
20 A. A little bit, yes.
21 Q. Now, the night before, Saturday night, was sort
22 of Halloween weekend; there would be parties, bar
23 parties, house parties, whatever. Did you chit
24 chat at all, talk about that?
25 A. On Sunday we had just talked and she had
1 mentioned that she had a cowgirl hat and she was
2 going to dress up like a cowgirl. And that was
3 pretty much the extent of it.
4 Q. This was, I’m sorry, Saturday or Sunday?
5 A. Sunday.
6 Q. Okay. Did she talk about having gone out the
7 night before, Saturday night at all?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Do you know from any other information whether
10 she did go out Saturday night?
11 A. I don’t know.
12 Q. Or Sunday night?
13 A. I don’t know that either.
14 Q. You said that you distributed 1,000 to 3,000
15 posters?
16 A. Roughly.
17 Q. And that she had all these friends and helping
18 out, including friends in Green Bay calling. You
19 called some friends; is that right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. This was on November 3rd, when you called the
22 friends, right?
23 A. That was Thursday, yes.
24 Q. Yeah, Thursday. But you said none of those
25 people were particularly helpful, giving you any
1 information about her. Most of them hadn’t seen
2 her for awhile?
3 A. That’s correct.
4 Q. With all those posters out, all that publicity,
5 did anybody ever come forward and talk to you,
6 tell you where Teresa was on Saturday night?
7 A. No.
8 Q. October 29th?
9 A. Not that I remember.
10 Q. So that night is an unknown in her life; is that
11 right?
12 A. I don’t know of what happened that night with
13 her.
14 Q. Be fair to say that Teresa had a private side as
15 well, that you didn’t know about?
16 A. No, I don’t think so. I don’t think she had a
17 private side that I didn’t know about. We were
18 pretty open with each other. We talked a lot.
19 Q. Well, if she had gone out Saturday night with
20 somebody, or some place, and you know nothing
21 about it, would that surprise you?
22 ATTORNEY KRATZ: Objection relevance,
23 Judge.
24 THE COURT: Mr. Buting.
25 ATTORNEY BUTING: I will withdraw it.
1 THE COURT: Very well.
2 Q. (By Attorney Buting)~ So the last time you
3 actually saw Teresa was Sunday?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You never talked with her on the phone after
6 that?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, you never
9 called her?
10 A. No. Well, that’s not correct. I did call her
11 somewhere in the middle of the week and I did not
12 get an answer and her voice mailbox had said that
13 it was full.
14 Q. Okay. Do you remember what day that was?
15 A. No, I don’t.
16 Q. Thursday, Wednesday?
17 A. I called her on Thursday when I realized she was
18 missing, but I believe I called her once earlier
19 in the week.
20 Q. Okay. So when you first learned, you said it was
21 Scott that came over; did he come over, or call
22 you, or what did he?
23 A. He called me.
24 Q. Called you and said that — he said that he
25 wanted your assistance, or what?
1 A. He just called and said that Teresa’s dad had
2 came over to his work site and asked him if he
3 had seen her recently. And Scott had called me
4 on his way home just asking if I had talked to
5 her. Asking if I could come over and help.
6 Q. Now, you said that — Scott’s work site? What is
7 that?
8 A. Scott worked construction. I don’t know where
9 his work site was, but usually they did kind of
10 local house work.
11 Q. Okay. Did you ask Scott if he had tried to call
12 Teresa at all during the Monday, Tuesday,
13 Wednesday, Thursday?
14 A. I don’t know.
15 Q. May have called, is that what you are saying?
16 A. I don’t know.
17 Q. Did you think that it was odd that three or four
18 days had gone by without Scott coming forward and
19 saying, where is she?
20 A. No.
21 Q. That didn’t strike you as odd at all?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Why not?
24 A. Well, they were kind of on differing schedules.
25 Teresa worked for herself and Scott worked
1 construction. So he would be up and out of the
2 house by 5:30, 6 in the morning. A lot of times
3 I know Teresa didn’t get up and go to work until
4 9 or 10.
5 Q. So did you know Scott’s schedule?
6 A. Fairly well, yes.
7 Q. But you didn’t know where he was working, is what
8 you are saying?
9 A. I didn’t know what site they were on that day.
10 Q. On any given day?
11 A. On any given day, for that matter. Occasionally
12 I would know, just from driving by and seeing him
13 on the side of the road working on a house, but.
14 Q. Okay. What kind of construction did he do?
15 A. Rough work, rough framing.
16 Q. Rough carpenter?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. Now, when you went over there, to her house, on
19 Thursday; you said Scott had already found some
20 kind of information or no?
21 A. No.
22 Q. What did you do first; how did you start to
23 gather information about who to call?
24 A. I just started looking through all her records.
25 She had filing cabinets set next to her computer.
1 Kind of her business workstation, I guess. Just
2 started looking through the files. Turned her
3 computer on and there was actually a — She had
4 an icon that was named Teresa’s friends. Clicked
5 on that and her friend’s basically popped right
6 up with phone numbers.
7 Q. Was this a laptop?
8 A. It was.
9 Q. Okay. And what did you do first? You talked
10 about going online with her phone records, or did
11 you call friends first?
12 A. Well, we got the phone list of her friends and
13 started calling them. And I guess you could
14 probably say it kind of all went down at the same
15 time. We were calling friends; it was me and
16 Scott, and Kelly Bitsen was calling friends as
17 well. And we were kind of working on getting her
18 phone records at the same time.
19 Q. How soon did Kelly Bitsen arrive? How long were
20 you and Scott there together before she arrived?
21 A. I’m going to estimate and say between —
22 Q. Six, something like that?
23 A. What’s that?
24 Q. She arrived like 6 or 7, something like that?
25 A. Yeah, she was there a few hours after I got
1 there, I believe. She was one of the first
2 people —
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. — that we called of her friends.
5 Q. Now, tell me about this online search. You tried
6 calling her phone and it was full, right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you know her voice mail password?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Did you ever — So you didn’t call and listen to
11 her voice mail at all?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Never?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Never did that day, or before?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Or since? Okay. And she had never shared her
18 password with you for the online records either?
19 A. No.
20 Q. So you just went online to Cingular Wireless, or
21 whatever, .com and just guessed her password.
22 A. Well, we — me and Kelly Bitsen had just kind of
23 figured that it would fairly be something
24 relating to her sisters. I believe — I think it
25 was their birthdays that got into it for us. I’m
1 not exactly sure about what the password was.
2 Q. But you didn’t know what her user name was.
3 A. No, I believe that automatically came up when you
4 entered her phone number in, you just need the
5 password.
6 Q. Okay. And that’s the first time you ever tried
7 to search her phone record or use that password?
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. Do you know if — if anybody else knew her voice
10 mail password?
11 A. I don’t know that.
12 Q. Or if anybody else listened to her voice mails?
13 A. I don’t know that either.
14 Q. All right. By the time that Calumet county
15 investigators arrived, I take it you guys were
16 pretty concerned about Teresa’s well being, where
17 she was?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And you knew that it was important that you
20 provide as much information, as accurate
21 information as you could?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did the police interview you and Scott together,
24 or did they put you in separate rooms when they
25 talked to you, or how did they do that?
1 A. I believe we were — I believe we were in the
2 same room.
3 Q. Okay. Now, did the investigators ask you any
4 questions about the nature of your relationship
5 with Teresa?
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. And they learned that you were a former
8 boyfriend, stayed good friends with her?
9 A. Well, I believe I just said that I was a friend
10 of hers. I don’t think I mentioned that I was an
11 ex-boyfriend.
12 Q. Okay. And they didn’t pursue that and ask if you
13 had ever had anything more than a friendship is
14 that what you are saying?
15 A. I believe so. It came out eventually, I just
16 didn’t feel that it mattered.
17 (Court reporter coughing, asked him to repeat.)
18 Q. Let me try again.
19 A. Ask it again, please.
20 Q. Did the police ever probe further and ask if you
21 had — the nature of your relationship with her
22 beyond whether there was ever anything more than
23 friendship?
24 A. I don’t think they really probed into that. I
25 mean, I don’t remember when it came out or who
1 was the one that mentioned that we used to date.
2 Q. Okay. But it wasn’t talked about that night?
3 A. I don’t believe so.
4 Q. When they were trying to find out what was
5 happening — or what had happened to this missing
6 person, right?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. And if Scott was there with you, then, did they
9 ask Scott the nature of his relationship with
10 Teresa?
11 A. Yeah.
12 Q. Did they ask any kind of probing questions about
13 whether he was ever intimately involved with her?
14 ATTORNEY KRATZ: Objection relevance,
15 Judge. Is this a Calumet County bias; that’s my
16 question?
17 THE COURT: Mr. Buting.
18 ATTORNEY BUTING: Investigative biases are
19 relevant no matter who is doing the investigation
20 involved in the case.
21 THE COURT: I don’t know if this really
22 falls under bias; I will allow the question.
23 THE WITNESS: Please ask me again.
24 Q. (By Attorney Buting)~ Did the investigators probe
25 the nature of Scott’s relationship at all to see,
1 you know, as to whether or not there was any kind
2 of intimate relationship between the two of them?
3 A. I don’t believe they probed into it. I believe
4 he just said that he was a roommate and a friend.
5 Q. Okay. So a single man living in a house with a
6 single woman, but that was the extent of it, just
7 roommates?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And as far as you knew, that was the extent of
10 their relationship as well?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Scott never told you otherwise?
13 A. That’s correct.
14 Q. Teresa never told you otherwise?
15 A. That’s correct as well.
16 Q. And your recollection is that you don’t know when
17 your former boyfriend status ever came up; it was
18 sometime down — some several days later?
19 A. That’s correct.
20 Q. Wasn’t like the next day?
21 A. May have been. Like I said, I don’t know when it
22 came up.
23 Q. Okay. So, going to the next day for a minute,
24 now, let’s just go to November 4th. You
25 mentioned that — Well, let me go back for a
1 minute. You mentioned that you had this meeting,
2 sort of on Friday — on Thursday night, the 3rd.
3 And that was you and Scott and Kelly, and is that
4 it, or do other friends come over?
5 A. I believe her friend, Lisa, was over, but not
6 until quite a bit later that night.
7 Q. Okay. And so the plan was made to contact this
8 organization, YES, the next day, make posters?
9 A. No, actually the family was in contact with YES.
10 Q. Okay. So that was something that came up later?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. On the 4th, after you had all these posters made
13 up; you had another meeting that — that late
14 afternoon or evening, Friday, to talk about where
15 to go from here?
16 A. Yeah, Friday — Friday night, after the posters
17 were done being handed out.
18 Q. Okay. And you said that you downloaded satellite
19 images and maps and were kind of trying to figure
20 out how to divide up different areas, right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And you were asked about why you directed any
23 efforts towards the Avery area, on direct, by
24 Mr. Kratz; do you recall that?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. And I believe you said it was because the media
2 had the information and the media was already
3 seeming to focus on Mr. Avery; is that right?
4 A. I don’t think it was Avery himself. I believe
5 that it was just that we knew her last
6 whereabouts were out in Manitowoc County.
7 Q. Okay. And had you seen any interviews with
8 Mr. Avery at that point, or any news people
9 coming down and talking to people on the Avery
10 property?
11 A. I don’t know if I had seen any interviews. I
12 guess I was out putting posters up most of the
13 day.
14 Q. But you did know that by that time the word was
15 out in the media that the last known place, at
16 least that they thought the last known place had
17 been at the Averys, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And so that would have been true for anybody’s
20 knowledge, not just yours, anybody watching the
21 media?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now, the next morning, then, when you started
24 dividing up things, Scott was with you, right?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. And was Scott helping to assign people different
2 places?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And when the Sturm’s arrived, you said that Scott
5 had borrowed Pam Sturm a camera; is that right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Had lent, had lent her, given her a camera?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. A digital camera?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. He didn’t give everyone of those members,
12 Saturday morning, a camera, did he?
13 A. No.
14 Q. He just gave it to Pam Sturm, who he knew was
15 going to go out to the Avery Salvage Yard?
16 A. That’s correct.
17 Q. The only person he gave a camera to, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And during this entire missing person period,
20 that is, before the RAV4 was found, did the
21 police ever ask you for any kind of alibi for
22 October 31st?
23 A. No.
24 Q. They never asked your whereabouts whatsoever?
25 A. I don’t believe so.
1 Q. Okay. Anybody, point blank, ever ask you, if you
2 had any knowledge about her disappearance, or
3 were involved in it?
4 A. I don’t know if they did it like that, like they
5 were accusing me but, of course, people asked me
6 if I had talked to her, or knew anything. And
7 that’s why I was there to help.
8 Q. Okay. And, to your knowledge, did you ever hear
9 the police ever ask Mr. Bloedorn, Scott Bloedorn,
10 if he had an alibi for Monday, October 31st in
11 the evening, late afternoon hours?
12 A. I don’t know that.
13 Q. So it would be fair to say that you weren’t in
14 any way treated like a suspect, that you could
15 tell?
16 A. That’s correct.
17 Q. And even on the 5th, and thereafter, when the
18 search narrowed into the Avery’s area and
19 surrounding areas, the police actually let you
20 through some check points, along with some other
21 searchers, you leading them to come and search
22 the area, right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Within the perimeter of the area around the Avery
25 property that they had made off limits to the
1 general public, right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And was that true of Scott as well?
4 A. Yes.
5 ATTORNEY BUTING: That’s all I have.
6 THE COURT: Any redirect?
9 Q. Just so we’re clear Mr. — I’m sorry. Just so
10 we’re clear, Mr. Hillegas, the area that you were
11 allowed access to was the outside of the Avery
12 property itself, in other words, the surrounding
13 properties, not within the salvage property; is
14 that true?
15 A. Yes.
16 ATTORNEY KRATZ: That’s all I have, Judge.
17 Thank you.
18 THE COURT: All right. You are excused.