Scratches on The Right Hand Too?


I hope that most people following this already know about the scratch marks, or at least what look like scratch marks, on Ryan Hillegas’ left hand.  But there appear to be what looks like a scratch on his right hand too.

 

Scratch on Ryan Hillegas' right pinky finger

Scratch on Ryan Hillegas’ right pinky finger

 

What appear to be scratch wounds on Ryan Hillegas' left hand

What appear to be scratch wounds on Ryan Hillegas’ left hand

 

Scratch wounds on Ryan Hillegas' left hand from another angle

Scratch wounds on Ryan Hillegas’ left hand from another angle

 

Imagine if someone much more powerful than you had their hands around your throat and you were fighting for your life.  You might lack the strength to release their grip, but you could at least leave a few deep marks on their hands, especially if you were a woman and had nails of any length before you lost consciousness.

Notice the left to right angle of the scratch marks.  And that’s the angle you’d expect of scratch marks if Teresa were pulling down and away, the most natural motion.  Notice too, that one is higher up on the hand than the other.  That too is also what you’d expect if we take into account that the outside mark (the one higher up on the hand) corresponds to the middle finger, and the other mark corresponds to the shorter index finger.  I would say that these marks look fresh.  Probably a few days old at most.

But there is also what looks like a mark on the pinky finger of Ryan Hillegas’ right hand.

 

Scratch wounds on Ryan Hillegas' right pinky finger

Scratch wounds on Ryan Hillegas’ right pinky finger

Now, it’s an important question to ask whether Teresa was right or left handed.  If she was right handed, like most people.  If she was, you would expect the right hand to be stronger and more coordinated than the left hand.  What I’m getting at, is you’d expect the marks made on Hillegas’ left hand to be more severe if they were made by Teresa’s right hand, and the marks on Hillegas’ right hand to be less severe if they were made by Teresa’s left hand, and that’s exactly what we see.

Most importantly of all, we might infer by what look like wounds on Ryan’s hands, that if he killed Teresa Halbach, his former lover, he did so while staring into her eyes, thinking only of the thought of her immolation.  If Ryan killed Teresa this way, he also knew that there would be his DNA underneath her fingernails.

The normal reason for burning a body would be dispose of it so completely that there is no trace of it to be found.  Why go through all the trouble without finishing the job?  The bones, having been reduced to tiny pieces, could just as easily been ground into powder and thrown into the quarry, in a lake, or probably even the lawn.

Maybe the person who burned Teresa’s body wasn’t so concerned about getting rid of the body as getting rid of the DNA on the body.  And given the way the bones were scattered around the Avery property in so many locations, you’d almost think that whoever burned Teresa Halbach’s body almost wanted her bones to be found.


62 comments

  • All very interesting stuff. The irony in this is, that if a proper investigation had been done from the get go, we wouldn’t be speculating about Ryan’s innocence or guilt. It appears the majority here would agree that Steven was framed and is innocent. If only the police had investigated Ryan thoroughly. If he is innocent, he wouldn’t have to deal with all of us suspecting that he is guilty and the angst that comes with being falsely accused. Having said that, he does look suspect. I hadn’t come across the pics of the scratches until just yesterday which really does look bad on him. Are these pics confirmed to have been taken following Teresa’s disappearance and during the time of the initial search?

  • Why was Teresa calling Manitowoc Police Detective Remiker the day she goes missing?????????????????????????????????? There is more to this and he called her back and is the last known person to leave a voice me message on her phone! What is this???????? Listen to the below phone call from 11/04/05, the day after she is reported missing. At exactly 2 minutes and 49 seconds into this call, Detective Remiker states that he is calling Teresa back on October 31st and he is possibly her last voice message……
    What? uhm, what?

    https://www.youtube.com/attribution_link?a=G6YUH_C3Mpo&u=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DtlyBVBJKTeM%26feature%3Dshare%26list%3DPL-i_BEpXipNXQrt9x36L_wIHS8XXaF-yj%26index%3D3

    • Listened closely. They are talking about the call with AutoTrader. The person you think is saying ‘me’ is Weigert, not Remiker. You’re right — “I think that was me, I left her a message…” then it’s all garbled. Huh.

      I’m fuzzy on this, but I think I read somewhere that he was selling a car and wanted her to take a photo.

      Keep in mind, that may be quite innocent. She was the photographer for this region. She left her card w/ people for whom she had taken photos in the past so they could ring her directly. BUT it’s worth more exploration.

      • I heard this before and then I thought maybe one of them was talking to someone in the office. It is strange. If either of them happened to be calling her on the 31st for a photo, that strikes me as a bizarre “coincidence”. It is almost like part of that tape has been cut or edited.

    • Remiker also said he had a witness reported seeing Teresa take a photo of a cow, after leaving Avery residence.
      The other officer said, a witness called saying they saw her vehicle being driven after day after 31st.
      I think Hillegas turned up unexpectedly after she left Avery’s

  • I thought the marks on Ryan’s right hand looked like bruises.

  • In one interview Mike Halbach says something about “the grieving process could last days or blah blah” and “we hope to find Theresa alive blah blah.” However the interview took place before they found the car or any other evidence that she had in fact been killed. I find it suspicious that he was talking about “the grieving process” at that moment. I def think he was hiding something either with himself or that ryan hillegas ex bf. Never believed either one of them.

  • With all the media and cameras around and Ryan being part of the search team, I would think more photos of his hands could be obtained.
    It would also be interesting if there are any photos on his Facebook or friends Facebook (or any type) a day prior to her last know being seen.
    I wish the police had investigated him, alibi, the possible deleted vm on TH’s phone, interviewing TH’s friends about their relationship and or maybe a diary. This guy was in her house when she was first missing and on her computer :/ anything could have been deleted or taken. It’s just really sad. Even for him if he’s completely innocent, because he could have been ruled out and checked. If guilty, we’ll all that evidence is gone or alibi forgotten.
    I know throwing stuff out there is not looked highly upon. But you can see the mother in the doc really contemplating ( seemingly) what the the defense leaders are saying at one point. She sometimes looks closed off, but she’s thinking about it.

    • I checked Ryan’s Facebook page, and there are no such photos, I can assure you. Ryan can still be ruled out and checked, and the first thing we need from him, and Mike Halbach too, is a solid alibi which so far we haven’t gotten.

      • I know it’s not factual information, but look at the mom on episode 5 at around the 18min mark. She’s really thinking about what the defense is saying. I was just going to add the photo but don’t know how.

        • I know about the mom. The stuff I really suspect about what happened is so upsetting I don’t dare publish it. Yet.

          • Do you know how Teresa’s dad died? Feel free to email if you don’t want to say here. I can’t find this information anywhere.

          • Daniel,
            I too will not publish it, because it may cause a reaction and upset that would prevent the Justice to play out right. The piper will come. He has his horn in hand. When he blows it, we will know it is the time. That is what helps me get through this right now. I think KZ knows it very well in deed also.

        • I have been thinking this, too. Teresa’s family was hearing all the defense evidence for the first time in court, and as reasonable people, they had to start realizing that there was more to this story.

          There has been a lot of talk about Mikes body language during Ryan’s testimony. Is it possible that his reaction was not due to his involvement, but rather him realizing that Ryan was full of it and has been playing him the whole time. Things could have been clicking for him at that moment.

          • The transcripts are available and I’ve read his testimony (don’t recall the link). Starts fairly solid but ends sketchy with many questions. He never admitted to being an ex boyfriend, that’s a biggie.

          • I think the capturing of so many expressions is one of the most overlooked aspects of this documentary. Normally when cameras are set up in a place like a courtroom, you get something that look a lot like footage from C-SPAN as the shot remains static for the duration. Moira Demos and Laura Ricciardi imbued their footage with a cinematic quality by getting shots of the expressions of everyone in the courtroom. This is but one of the brilliant strokes that separates this documentary from just about everything else that has come before it. It falls so far out of category in so many ways that we shouldn’t expect it to be fully apprehended at the moment. I believe we would do well to remember that the great art is supposed to hurt a little, disrupt, offend, and overthrow.

          • Sorry for the long one……did it from my laptop, didn’t check the sig to make sure it said from #106.

          • Thanks for the post, but it’s a little too long for the comment section. I’m going to move it to a menu though, so not to worry.

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          • MH issues aside, thanks for giving me credit for posting his testimony.

            • Crazy me firs thought MH stood for Mike Halbach. But I eventually puzzled out that you meant Mental Health. Ok, ok! I’m on my way to the pharmacy right this very second…

          • Run Daniel run!!!

          • Just read Hillegas transcript.

            What was Ryan? Were you over there once a week at most… Or over there 3 nights in a row week after week.

            25 Q. Okay. So you were over there quite a bit during
            177
            1 that last six months or so?
            2 A. I wouldn’t say quite a bit.
            3 Q. Once a week?
            4 A. Occasionally, once a week, maybe.
            5 Q. Okay. Okay. Over that time, would it be fair to
            6 say that you became accustomed with Teresa’s
            7 habits and routines, generally?
            8 A. No, I wouldn’t say that.
            9 Q. Well, did you know, for instance, was she a
            10 homebody; did she like to go out?
            11 A. She kind of did what she wanted. Sometimes I
            12 would go over there and, you know, not see her
            13 the three times that I stopped that week. And
            14 the following week I could go there and I would
            15 be there three nights in a row when she would be
            16 there every night, just depended.

            Read more: http://overthrow.us/ryan-hillegas-complete-court-testimony/#ixzz3xp2XCmMI

      • unfortunately he claimed not to recall what part of the day it was he saw her on 30th.Even though he remembered taking a package over for the roommate.

        I don’t remember is a front door he wont open.Whats he got to hide.

      • Hillegas couldn’t even remember the time he went to her house to drop off stuff for Scott, morning evening or night.
        Strange too when her brother spoke for Hillegas during the search, like covering up for someone as he agreed to being there the previous 2 days.
        He was never investigated which I thought was ridiculous, Teresa’s boss said she was being harassed and stalked, Hillegas didn’t like Teresa’s living arrangements, I think he deleted messages days after the murder.

      • Above there is a comment on Facebook.

        Facebook wasn’t available for the general public in 2005. Only university/college students.
        It also wasn’t that great for posting a lot of photos or ‘status’ updates the way people catalog everything now. Not everyone had a digital camera. Camera phones were rare. It was a completely different animal back then.

    • if you look at pictures of Ryan while at the Avery property you can see scratches to his face, right about where the Cheek bone meets his Beenie cap. This guy is so suspicious its not even funny, what even more suspicious is the lack of emotion from the Ex Boyfriend and the brother lets not also forget the room mate who never reported her to be missing.

      I am convinced that Avery is innocent and I pray that this wrong is made right

  • hi:) i am not a typical psychic, but have deep empathic qualities that allow me to feel and sense when others are lying or deviating from the truth. it has served me well in life and has helped me uncover personal scandal in my life many times. i am positive that while Steven Avery may very well be a scary post-institutional individual, did not kill halbech. even theresas mother has been altering her testimony in the favor of averys conviction for some reason. she only partially/mostly believes Avery did it. she also doubts Ryan’s innocence. Ryan is absolutely GUILTY. it was clear the moment I first saw his face & before any notion of his being guilty became more obvious. it is a travesty that these cops–beef headed and corrupt–could so clearly let their disdain for Avery alter the ath of this trial so devilishly. they all think they are righteously making the right move for the community, but Ryan has just successfully gotten away with a heavily plotted murderer by a young psychopath. he did it not only for reasons pertaining to their relationship, but greatly & simply bc he recognized the opportunity and believed had could (not so cleverly) orchestrate the murder and pull it off. he wanted to prove himself capable.

  • I am from Wisconsin and remember this case well. It is well publicized around here that Ryan had a history with his gf's of stalker type behavior in the past.

    • Very interesting. Would love to know more!

    • Yes it was known, her boss told that she was being harassed and constant phone calls, she didn’t reveal who, but it’s only common sense who it was, I believe he met her after leaving Avery’s property.
      A phone call between the detectives was not used in court, both received calls from public saying they saw Teresa at the roadside taking photos of a cow.
      Another witness says Teresas car was seen being driven towards Avery autos the day after she went missing with no licence plates.
      One detective said he’ll follow it up as it sounds the witness is sure.
      Hillegas had time to murder her, drive the body to a pit and burn it, had plenty of time to leave it until night as no one reported her missing.
      He knew that day she was visiting Avery’s from her voicemail.
      Avery just did not have time on his hands to do all that, it’s just not physically possible

  • Even if she did have only one key on her key ring, at the very least she surely must have had a house key somewhere. So where is that house key?

  • The Bloodhound Gang

    I tend to agree- even with work or school, it would be natural for him to attend the trial as much as possible. It would be interesting to speak to the filmmakers (?) or others to get a sense of how much he did attend.

  • I think you have a valid point. I already had a problem with the single key: not one person I know has one key on their key ring.

    • .my thoughts exactly..i also wonder if they…the cops ect..ever had a search warrant to look thru her personal belongings at her house…or did her family just gave them her things..like a solo key to her vehicle..

  • Maybe. But maybe not so unusual if he was working or going to school or both.

  • Last point I meant to say, would it be strange for him to go out of this way to lead the search and then to disappear, would he not be sitting by her brother's too in the court room since he was such a prominent figure in the search party/in his ex-girlfriends life?

  • Hey Daniel, can you confirm if Ryan even attended any of the court hearings, besides the times he took to the stand?
    Whenever Making a Murderer showed the people sitting in the court I couldn't see Ryan. I think it would be strange for him to go out of his way and lead the search but to then disappear and in some way continue his 'support'?

  • Read what it says: 'comments removed BY THE AUTHOR'.

  • Hi from Spain.

    When I saw the first episode of MaM, I felt it was going to be just another tacky American pseudo-reality show (you guys make great shows but there are a fair few lemons too! . I had to force myself to watch the second episode…
    Then I binged-watched the rest. As soon as I heard Ryan speak I had a bad feeling about him. I'm the type of guy who wanted to see through the conspiracy theory and feel that justice had been done and that Avery was the bad guy. Try as I may, I can't. Even forgetting about Avery altogether for a moment, I was amazed that Ryan wasn't being scrutinised a lot more. He's so obviously a suspect, at least. Ex-boyfriends are in murder cases. The victim's 'oh no, not him again' reaction to a caller on her phone is typical when a bothersome ex is stalking yo . We've all seen that some time in our life.
    He claims to 'hate women because they're evil' in a yearbook, cuts in his hands, 'guessed' a username and a password on someone else's PC and is given a priviledged place in the investigation on the whole.
    I work with cops in Spain and they can't understand why he wasnt interrogated a lot more…

    Perhaps we'll all be back here in a year or so saying 'told you so'.

    Maybe not…

    • You can you resubmit that entire comment in Spanish if you speak Spanish?

    • The stalker notion is pretty interesting seeing how Teresa received 18 missed calls/voicemails between October 31, 2005 and November 3, 2005. She also received a call/message on November 16, 2005, 5 days after Avery was arrested for her murder. I have analyzed the original call logs (http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Trial-Exhibit-372-Halbach-Voicemail-Records.pdf) here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/45u0pc/questions_and_answers_megathread_february_15_2016/d03ptth. On one particular day (November 2, 2005) she had 8 missed calls/voice messages. None of the calls lasted longer than 69 seconds and the shortest call lasted 9 seconds. Could this have been the ex-bf calling her? Was she still alive at this time?

      • Her number could have received calls all during that time. There’s nothing to stop them. Your description of the voicemails explains why her voicemail box was full, nothing more.

        If you’re keen, try a reverse directory search for the numbers calling. They may still lead back to the person/business that placed them. Some will be the photography studio I’m sure.

        The think that bugs me is when you look at the Voicemail list and there is NOTHING at 4.37 on the 31st, the time that Steve Avery supposedly left a message.

        compare to HIS phone records. A call shows there. It is listed as CFNA on TH’s phone record (not the voicemail record). These things don’t add up.

  • True, but I think it was a chilly day because all of the volunteers were dressed for warmth.

  • Every picture of him has a long sleve shirt on….

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  • I haven't deleted any comments. I left it open so people can leave whatever comments they want anonymously, and also delete them if they wish. Where else are you going to find such a liberal comment policy?

  • hey so let me start by saying your blog is genius. I literally cant stop myself from reading every post you have. your writing skills are impeccable. THAT BEING SAID I think I just found something very helpful. you know that picture that has Theresa in front of her RAV 4 and shes holding her camera? its on the documentary and also here is a link: http://i.imgur.com/TCRvTka.jpg

    well if you would, please zoom in on her right hand. There is clearly something enclosed in that hand. if you look at it close enough, it is fair to determine that it is in fact a set of her keys. keyS, being plural. that means that when that picture was taken (and we would need to find out when) that she had more that one key on her key ring. and if this was the case, then she would have not had a use for her spare key (which is the key I believe Ryan planted inside Stevens house, and also the other part of the lanyard that was in the car itself) therefore your theory would actually be a little closer to right. seeing as how this key was found only after the long search at the Avery house, (8 days I think) and the fact that it is found by the one officer that shouldn't have even been at that house,(lenk 4 months later) is sketchy at best.

    I know you are a busy man, and you have a lot on your plate, but if you could please email me back and let me know if you think this little shard of evidence that I may have found could help prove that an innocent man is serving time wrongfully, I would greatly appreciate it. actually if im being honest, any response from you would be super awesome. thank you for your time, and I will be adding some funds to your trip via gofundme. hope all is well and you are having a good new year despite being far from family and friends!

    • Brilliant spotting the keyS! If you haven’t already, please share with Kathleen Zellner

    • Reviewing photos of the car, the Rav4 has power door/locks/windows. Where is the keyless entry remote control to open/lock the doors.

        • Toyota’s are sold with 3 keys. Two plastic wrapped keys each equipped with a remote and a third metal key, without a remote. If she or her family were not the original owners, the car may have been sold to Teresa without the remotes.

          I wonder if the family or roommate were ever questioned about her keys. Statistically speaking, I bet 99.99% of people carry more than a single car key on their rings.

      • Hi, good point, do you mind if I post this on the Avery/ Dassey family FB page ?

    • If you can date the photo, it also establishes that the driver’s side blinker was intact at that time, or at least in place.